Ethereum roadmap 2020 Say Hello and Opening Ceremony Devcon5

let's begin and let's begin with introducing ourselves so I'm Annette and I'm helping out with operations and even organizing of three magicians and I'm a part of operations ring material magicians and how I generate III magicians it was actually very interesting story that we started with Jamie when I had a call with him like back in like like beginning of the summer I guess yeah and then Jamie kind of saved me and he was like okay and I was chained I see magicians because we are corny article as well okay I'm so sorry yeah so basically I just jointed the a magicians at the beginning of this summer and this is Jamie and he will introduce its house I'm gonna trace myself my name is Jamie and yeah i'm i work in devops at the theorem foundation and also volunteer for the etherion magicians and we started me we started the magicians it was about a year and a half ago and it's been a great experience but essentially it was started to improve the process of developing the technology together and so often at our meetings we'll create a circle and we'll have discussions and so essentially I joined I started the magicians with Greg Calvin so that we could all have a better conversation as a community is it storytime am I supposed to tell a story okay so yeah like we we we started with the proposal we proposed to the community to form the etherion magicians and then we started having gatherings and we also created a forum and ultimately it's to it's to improve the technology by enhancing the communication among groups in the community because there's many groups in this community we want them to come together and and work things out and so later we'll go over the schedule and we can you can see how that's put to action yeah but basically III magicians is a forum where you can contribute to an open source and you can discuss about he's already IPS and you can meet the community over there and we are basically community of individuals who are working on different parts of it I am ether a magician can be anybody who is basically one who wants to improve each hiriam and who wants to join open surgical system and who wants to work in a in a working group that we call rings who is actually on the forum on the forum is anybody there is hearing foundation researchers there are all kinds of smart people or researchers their car developers builders educators and you can be a part of it a magician's as well and they're actually algorithms who are using III magicians forum as a tool where they can meet the community and discuss about a headpiece and decide if the IP is going to and through the process or not let me just explain you order a eyepiece because I think that a lot of you guys are new to cerium so a happies are basically it's basically an improvement proposal that anybody from the community will ride a bee and like yeah it's just technical a technical thing an EIP is essentially a specification and often they're very complicated technical documents but you can also submit a IPS for a governance change or any change and so there's different categories of VIPs and it's totally open so you can propose any change you want and people do people propose very strange changes to the protocol their proposed strange ERC's that's absolutely welcome and if you want to change the process if you don't like how the process works you can submit any IP that that is for that too yeah yeah but if your magicians please go discuss their and prove your ideas because talking is great but proving that your ideas works is way better and that's what everyone any Theory make a system lost when you are not just talking a cheap posting on Twitter but it's very ordinary coding and creating the diagrams and prototyping oh wait yes so exterior magicians is not only an online community but we believe that in-person meetings have way bigger value for us for the community and we bigger impact on the ecosystem so we are organizing magicians gatherings we call those major magicians gatherings councils and that's basically where the community will meet it's usually like twice or three times a year usually during some book chain weeks are some bigger internet conferences and that's where we are discussing about the main problems in etherium and then ring waiters are organizing ring meetings or working groups on behalf of those so yet to explain the the larger gatherings is when we really pull the community and find out what everyone wants to talk about and that's what well I guess we'll do a little bit of that right now in a moment but rings which are basically working groups will focus on a certain topic so if there's anything that you're particularly interested in and I think everyone is everyone has something they're going for here everyone's working on something there's probably others who want to work on that too and so the magicians is very open about helping you organize around that and so we call those rings to fit in with the theme of magicians but they're essentially working groups and at the end of today if you would like to come back here you can have a meeting with your group and perhaps announce it on Twitter but not and try to actually get some work done but we try to do these meetings three the big gatherings three times a year and usually we're riding on the coattails of some major event and that's today we got a pretty good room today at DEFCON so I thought you know I thought it was really nice of them to give us this space and and give us the ability to to work things out as a community so let's see what we got okay yeah so this this is the schedule you want to go to schedule so actually we are on time yeah I don't know we got scheduled this yeah definitely I've come to this room later on and we are going to have very interesting discussion with ei which is it's an enterprise aliens where we are going to discuss about how aetherium enterprise aliens wants to join a film community and how they want to like connect with the same community and I think that was a like spicy question we got already of them so it's gonna be very cold discussion and then definitely don't miss out the ischium road map sessions because that's basically the most important in a theory I make a system and that's probably the most important like highlight of this conference I think and if you if you are individual and if you want to like get some work done or if you want to like contribute to each area make a system definitely come to a working group or if you have questions about a serum and you want to discuss with us with magicians then help them come to open mic on our open community discussion yeah so that 11:00 it's 11:30 want to confirm that yeah 11:30 is the open community discussion and so anything you guys want to talk about will try to facilitate a discussion in the circle here so really encourage that I think a lot of people you see it on Twitter people have burning questions and they tweet at each other and maybe it's not the best way to communicate sometimes in your face to face you can actually work things out together and come to a resolution so we really encourage you to do that and so I think what we can do now is see if there's any questions that people have in mind if they want to work on something today and it's really hard because this is the very beginning and so people might not want to come forward in and speak out but I guess we'd like to ask is there is there anything that's that you think needs the community needs to work on is there anything you feel like is unresolved in the community or about the technology this you do have wow this is great okay I'm not surprised okay yeah yeah okay yeah yeah hey I'm I'm Dominic I'm active in one of the few rings for constraint constraint devices and I I think I just wanted to talk about that because that's like my burning burning topic question was about the technical topics we want to improve in the community anytime so I think just just having like the Webster ego into all the devices in the world and reaching small devices is like extremely important for that and I find that the community is not driving towards it's very focused and like desktop computers and miners in that but not actually reaching out to to getting everywhere where I think the original vision of Webster II was so I'm super excited about that that part is driving it forward so if anybody wants to discuss that later and maybe there's more of the ring group members here I haven't I think I've seen Li Li Jie Li Jie before here but if there's members here I would be happy to talk to you and how we can improve that with some AI peas yeah yeah I just think instead of communities polarizing they need to find ways to work together to build human consensus so I think that we all definitely because I voted I one issue I think is really important is um I feel like there's a lack of strategy this is a this is a big thing for me I feel like all the teams are just independently working on their ideas but there's no articulation of strategy and I think this applies to a lot of the core the core groups and I think the community is really into decentralisation and and doesn't want leadership as much perhaps but I think people need leadership and I feel like competitors to aetherium have an advantage because they may have someone who can articulate their vision and we hear the vision about the technology but I feel like it's lacking and strategy so that's my that's my two cents anybody else so I think just funding Collins and a bunch of you guys from different places and I think it's funding open protocol design I mean we've seen it with parity we're trying to do things would get coined but a lot of the projects that get funded are by VCS and everything else and I know them I represent a bunch of them and it's kind of an issue because a lot of that goes to people that aren't necessarily into the ethos of the community so I would like to just figure out more ways to get funding back in the hands of devs that are actually doing open protocol design since I think that's what got us here in the first place yeah definitely the we we have a ring for funding and that's often the ring that a lot of people get involved with funding is such a huge issue and I think certain projects are over funded as we all know because of these fundraising events and other projects are just terribly underfunded and I think that that could really slow down the development of aetherium as it was a great technology anybody else what have you tweeted about recently that's gotten you like tweet storms or added a lot okay well I get to give you an overview of how we how we run discussions we're going to try to create a circle here later throughout the day we're going to try to arrange people in a circle and often in these discussions you'll have somebody who might show up who's very technical proficient and we want to make sure that that they can be closer and and participated in discussion but one ethos of the magician's is open process and so basically we want to make sure that like say there's the core devs calls we want to make sure that people can come into those calls and participate in that and I think in general the core devs have followed really good approach for like how to govern a technology without a single entity in charge of the technology and so in a way I consider the cortes like a prototype magician magician's group because they were doing that without really being told or having any any kind of like model or anything it just kind of emerged that way is there a lot of misunderstanding about how the core devs function or is it is it do you feel like in general the the core devs are doing well with how they function I think that it's actually good question on ket holders and there's actually Tim um I think how do you feel about how the the core devs are managed and how how does that you know could you introduce a little bit about the core devs from what you know so disclaimer I'm not a core developer developer period but I do attend a lot of the calls because I'm a product manager and I kind of have to I mean how the decor devs work like I think it's a hard question um yeah and you should know yeah so I think obviously like it's doing well a theorem still works we've had a lot of upgrades and you know they've generally worked so like from a very base level like the protocol works and the core developers kind of write the code to ensure that there's obviously a whole lot of challenges and that's kind of what we're here to discuss from trying to gather just like sentiment throughout the community because the core developers kind of see one aspect the protocol which is really kind of the actual aetherium protocol themselves but they're not as close to stuff at the application level or at the mining level so it's always like this challenge of like how do you gather feedback from these groups who are typically not that people writing the upgrades but who are affected by them and I mean desert is there a process for that like how did they receive feedback from from different these different groups I mean because I know that you can reserve on the calls to be a part so there's no official process and contrary to what people say I think that's a good thing because you if you have like an official process it tends to get captured right like people will like kind of hack it and and so what typically happens is on the the developer side if they have an EIP they feel strongly for events they'll come on the calls and they'll kind of make a case for that and that's very impactful so I think if you're like an app developer or you know just working on some part of aetherium and you want to figure out what's like the highest impact way to get in touch with core developers and have like your point of view be heard just coming on the call or commenting on the agenda of the call if you can't come those things tend to have like a disproportionate impact just example recently there was a 2200 which changes some gas costs that's really useful for Union swap and Hayden who's the founder of uni swap came on the calls I think or the verities commented on the agenda that you know this is something that's really valuable and they're kind of counting on that and there's no like direct voting or anything but just that signal for like an important project saying this matters to us that's super valuable obviously how did that happen um I didn't think did they come into a call or how did how is that kind of thing communicated today to the group so you'd have to ask Hayden because yeah III don't know what was the process of like for them to come and comment there from the Chordettes call I I'm not sure if they just commented on the agenda or on the call that's something but basically if you want to like make change or if you want to interrupt this process just be active on the internet or visit all Cardiff's key my guests are coming there are comment on the github issue so the agenda is public there's a repo there's the etherium repo on github which is like github /e theorem I think and then there's a repo called p.m. therefore project management and all the agendas and recordings and transcripts for the call or available there and anyone is free to add to add a comment on the agenda so if you want to talk about something you just post a comment there I think Hudson manages most of the agendas to like you know go over to comments and make sure that the they get addressed does anyone have any questions about about things in the community yeah I think general question I was like how you deal with it like the difference for with other open source I think open source is like the model that is theorem is like comparing itself to you and a lot of projects like when I when I like to contribute when I contribute to like an any open source project like let's say Cassandra you go to the repo you you make contribution to PR requests right it gets in its may or not you know like or not and they say it's not going in but a few with aetherium and maybe that's like this in technology in general like how many PRS do I need to do was like I mean I have Gath and I have parity and I have like four others like it's a realization I need the political process to like get it from the top down right so that that's like how do you deal with that okay so yeah how do you actually get a change in aetherium you can't just like submit a PR you don't know where to go the number one place that describes this process is a IP one so there's a website and and it's on the if the repo as well looks like there's an oops repo and an oops website and the first one really describes it's kind of the whole process at length it's a bit of a doll read but there's basically two important distinctions are you doing something that changes the consensus rules or not if you're doing something that doesn't change the consensus rule an example of that is like ERC 20 that's usually kind of easier typically the process there is you'll just write here eeep get feet from the community through something like if your magicians and whatnot and there's some couple time delays you know between like you get your draft merge then you get feedback and then it gets like accepted and move to last call but that's usually like a pretty like easy-to-understand process and usually if everything is right then you get something that can accept it eeep and and know what the the thing is no one's or obligated to use your e right like ER c20 no one forces you to use E or C 20 but there is a neat there that specifies it so if you do want to use it it's like documented the hard part is what if you want to change like the consensus rules right you want to decrease the block reward you want to add an OP code stuff like that that's what's called a core EEP and basically the way that process goes is you first submit a draft typically you'll want to like kind of research your idea cuz there's a lot of quarries that have been submitted and abandoned in the past so say you want to add like an OP code or something like that just trying to find out like did people try to add this type of all code in the past and and use that to kind of feed into your your EEP once you have a draft typically people will go on Alcor devs to present it they get feedback and then they'll be like discussions and depending on how contentious your EEP is you'll get like a commensurate level of discussion so if you're saying like one really good example there was an ape in Istanbul it was about adding a chain ID up code right super simple we to do high value because smart contracts can know what chains they're on and not pretty contentious you know there's not really much I can go back there so the person wrote they came on the calls maybe a couple calls you know back and forth how do you do the details there was actually competing EEP around there like do we do a pre compiler and up code and so you know they had those discussions and it took a while the up code one and and then once once say like there's like this consensus amongst like gasps parity and the other clients they'll all implement it themselves so typically as like an EP in each champion you only have to provide like a single implementation whether it's against get parity whatever language you're comfortable with and when that gets accepted then all the other clients will do it so you don't have to do like five implementation um obviously if it's more contentious you know this process kind of falls a part of it and-and-and what you want to do is build you want to build consensus within the community and and that's a hard part that I don't think just like there's no like one way to do that right yeah you basically you kind of have to chill your EIP yeah you have to create an EIP and get support for it it's a political process and people kind of it's not just technical yeah people kind of frame that as a negative part I think and it's true done like it does add some burden and it's you know it's not an easy thing to do but at the same time you are kind of changing your pretty hues like a pretty big protocol so so there is always is gonna be some kind of I guess threshold you need the game you know you can't just like change aetherium and no one knows about it right and there's like political process is kind of socializing this idea that you have within the community and there's no good way to do that I don't think there's any blockchain that has a good way to do that because even like one big one big alternative to this is like oh what if you just have voting you know whatever mechanism it devotes to pretty seems instead you still have to do that political process because you still need to get people to like vote in favor of your thing and so it's I don't think it's that different than any other major it's basically the creative process of contributing to an open source you have to be creative and you have to create memes around your IP and make people to get interesting into your IP to make it happen and to make it get in into ecosystem yeah did you did you have a question yes it was it was kind of answered there but I guess what are your thoughts on you know some of the more gridlocked issues how do you think that people can reach consensus faster yeah do you feel like it's slow is that or no I don't know much about the process just I know that like just hear from hearing some people talk that like maybe they think that certain people's arguments aren't actually in good faith over certain things or like okay like I think also partially that's because over the Internet I feel like people are less that's trusting of people so like that may be meeting in person or something and seeing the other person's a real human and hash it out so I was I was thinking about this this week and I was telling you this when I wasn't listening to the first question I don't know if there's been a blockchain that has had like a major contentious upgrade that has worked without splitting the network right and and if there are examples please send them to me I'd love to know and try to understand them better because in general like these networks are open anyone can fork off right so if something is contentious enough that part of the community you know feels like it's a hill they're gonna die on then they can go and you know die on that hill like for coffin and do that and then the big question becomes what becomes the canonical you know protocol and not um but yeah I think if there's one thing you could like add value to etherium to resolve is like what's the way we deal with contentious issues without splitting the network because I don't think any blockchain has figured it out and even with Bitcoin right like you had the user activated soft Fork stuff like that like people kind of revolted and when there were contentious of grades so yeah I don't know but like if we can figure this out it's really valuable yeah yeah just to get the biases out upfront I'm Brad Alsop with canonize ER comm just so you know I'm biased from the get-go but basically if the last chord F meetings prog pal was a big controversial issue and people attended the meeting some people were threatening that if we didn't do prog pal there was gonna be a fork and other people were saying well if we do do prog pal there's going to be a fork but the problem is is no one knows for sure and so that's what we do it can either as you as you build consensus you build and track it it's basically a wiki with camps and so people can join whichever side you're in and in that which you measure will improve and you can find out what both sides want and you can work to build consensus and it focuses on what everyone agrees on and that's what usually everyone misses because no one talks about that but basically our goal at Cannon Iser is building and tracking and measuring consensus could you pull that up on the screen here briefly yeah yeah and let's take a look at that I think shortly we'll we'll break too because we want to get started getting ready for the EEA session but know that at 11:00 thirty if you want to come back and continue this discussion and whatever you want to talk about often we we get into the protocol but there's a lot of vrc's and there's a lot of like you know creative stuff happening with tokens there's so many different kinds of IPs and ERC is a type of VIP so here er c20 that's actually IP that's the probably the most famous CIP so there's so many different kinds of proposals and if you want to come back at the for the open discussion open mic we can discuss that and we don't always have to drone on about the protocol so there's many different aspects to get into but I would like to say if there's any final questions we can talk about those and then we got a wrap to get ready for the enterprise session yeah I just wanted to add that one of the other ways you can really contribute to the discussions and moving EIP s forward isn't just writing your IPS in many ways we kind of drown in proposals and ideas that people have floating around one of the most valuable things you can do is actually go to the e ip's registry and and look through what's there and start commenting and discussing and reviewing a IPS before they get scheduled for a hard fork because the process that generally happens is the ERP languages there for years eventually all core des decide to put it into a into a hard fork and then Twitter blows up and everyone says I didn't know about this this thing called the meta e IP you should look out for it that's a collection of what's gonna going to go all the yuppies are gonna go into the next release yep and finding some of these links as well all core devs calm it's not an official thing but it links off to some of these github things with long URLs and the metarie IP is linked there as well one thing you'll add about these meta AIPS we do them well in advance and by we I mean you know they get done anyways and all the stuff that's proposed for a future upgrade or hard fork isn't it there so it's not only like after the fact oh hey the court has decided these five things are in but if if you pull up like the istanbul one which is like 1679 oh right there it's linked Istanbul meta EEP and no ideas exist yeah so if you scroll down scroll down so you see here just like a whole list of withdrawn stuff yeah and they didn't start off as withdrawn like a couple of months ago if you go on like the diff and look at the original version these were all kind of proposed and then through discussions they kind of got accepted or withdrawn and so this is like a really good place there's one that's already open for the next upgrade after Istanbul which is like has a placeholder name of burden but and I don't know the number but so you can see stuff that's already being proposed there if you want to propose something you just open a PR against that meta ie IP and then people will kind of see you want to propose that and if you have strong opinions on anything that's proposed like Adrienne said you can go and share those opinions and that's that's really useful too to build consensus Thank You team [Applause] you