Swarm Alpha Online Event - AMA with the Swarm team

moving now to our a.m. I am a so I would like to invite everybody to show their faces with their webcams but please can just mute it until I ask you to unmute because otherwise it's gonna be a total chaos look at all these people showing up it's like amazing right I can't believe we have such so many talented people together here tonight this is this is a dream come true isn't it so Wow look at that okay so you even I even see people that weren't like life in the event I can't strike presentable I'm so sorry it's just too many people so let's just start with the first question if you like to answer the question just raise your hand and that will make like a little game out of it whose then are you already raising your hand oh no you were just adjusting your hats okay so the first question is will swarm be able to handle massive adoption I think this is like the scaling question right I can't imagine why people are afraid of scaling issues here so what if a new dep uses swarm for storage and that millions of users requests for data on swarm millions of users that's like you dream will it scale nicely so who would like to address scaling issues that I don't think we have ah Rinka yes thank you I give you the word please answer to this question well of course like otherwise we wouldn't start building it right so this is a very simple answer I think that the design of the architecture and how we we thought about is to build the oldest builds in order to support massive use cases and massive scalability so it's really deep down into the design architectural abilities so basically a simple yes from Rinka this is what you will have to be happy with thank you rinkie yeah this is a very interesting question I think does the Alpha include the swear and swindle storage guarantees in other words like this this is Oh Daniel Daniel already everybody is just answering question by shaking their heads like a new so maybe I can change the question a little bit to when will we see the actual incentivize each in there Victor because this mean no in victory you don't have to answer this if you don't want of course drinking again or Victor's no Victor sorry Lincoln Victor Victor is handing the words to drink thank you I won't think and they are planned in the roadmap to be somewhere so at that moment you'll be able to try out running the B network with thank you so much I think this question is again about because people are asking all these questions about it it's all money and here is this is this is what people are curious about what is the estimated costs to store for example one kilobyte of data and how does discuss scale with the size of the data and what God and what is the minimum guaranteed lifetime of my data so basically it's about how much does it cost the store one kilobyte and what is like the persistence thing that we have going on and I hope I see everybody on the screen by the way no oh my god there's a second screen with so many people okay Daniel go ahead all the costs are going to be not just by size but also by time so if you want to store your kilobyte for two years it's going to be more expensive than having to store it only for one year so just a clarification about the dimensionality of this thing we expect but it's pure speculation on my part it's not not something that it's easy to know in advance that price is especially initially will be probably comparable to commonly use the centralized solutions and the reason that my guess is because people need to coordinate on something like there needs to be some starting point and this looks like the obvious starting point how it's gonna evolve over time it really depends on what value people place censorship resistance how fierce the competition is going to be and so on so about the evolution of the price it's again difficult to speculate but as storage devices become cheaper and cheaper and hopefully more and more providers join the network I think that the overall trend is going to be down it's going to so the same amount of tokens will buy you more and more storage for more and more time but finally and I think this is an important thing drive home the cost of storing your information really depends a little bit on the nature of demand for this information so if what you're storing is something very popular in high demand it will cost you nothing because it will be always cached because the bandwidth incentives will make sure that all swarm nodes that come across this information will cache it and even that process of caching will be enough for your information to stay on swarm so if you publish something that the whole world is interested in it will cost you nothing that's amazing that's one I think that's exactly what we're looking for right so that's so much that a compact stream on the other stream is information that nobody cares about it will still be stored on swarm for example your encrypted backup definitely nobody except for you will ever download it and hope so you will not download it either because it will never leave yes so that's the other extreme that's the really unpopular information however you need really strong guarantees that it's going to be there so that is going to be the most expensive kind of information story so these are the two extremes and you will find everything thank you so much Daniel that's that's a very comprehensive answer next one I'm just gonna assign this one to Shirdi because I am the moderator of this thing so I can be a little bit egoistical charlie the question is can swarm benefit from the recent explosion of zero knowledge stack and if so how and when and I know I love hearing you talk about CK stuff so go ahead what gets warm too for CK well as you know that does the the scaling a strategy of Zika perhaps has two parts one is the zero knowledge which actually you can validate any amount of transactions with time constant so you can validate theoretically one million transactions in ten milliseconds which is very cool and this is a key piece of the of the skilling system but the other part is the data availability now all these so it doesn't matter if you can process if you can wear until that number of transactions are valid if these transactions are not available to the people because there is a very easy attack that's an operator that's just processing all this data keeps the data for themselves so we need so we need a sort of that right ability right now the there is two kinds of roll-ups one is what we call secure app that's we put this data on chain so that's okay let's put is that in a compressive way okay that's what CK volitans about the other is were we the name of palladium Metallica a lot of people just come out to this his name and this mainly means that we put the data of chain where do you put right now the current solutions they are putting in some kind of Federation nodes somewhere I'm not sure you know I'm not an expert and this is maybe an answer for you but a solution of storing this data this would give the decentralization and at the same time could bring the scalability of course this data needs to be like it's very it's not compared to maybe a video or two other sort of storage is not it's not a not a huge data but what's required is that it must be a my Lavar yes or yes you know it says we need this that availability where entities so here is okay and maybe it's I was trying to answer or maybe it's a question for you it's like do you think that swarm will be ready for handling this kind of information that's highly Emmanuel small business but highly available that you can you know you have the warranty that the data is always gonna be a manual surely you can't do this I mean we ask you a question and we want you to explain stuff to us and then you and then you raise more questions this is like it's just highly inappropriate still I'm gonna throw it to Victor because this is actually a question in the AMA like but yeah but what Jordi said Victor can you answer that yes of course the promises that it will be able to handle that exactly because so so one thing is that we introduced illegitimate at the county but was called a solution then we'd send instant possession otherwise like a visit little scheme to the efficient resources and that's less taking care of with message passing between peers eight kilometer but then we have another incentive is a should skin which starts me the idea it's one we really like wood wood where the knowledge is for I kind of incentive structures sister to the checkbook which works as a child also constructing a postage stamp postage stamp originally used to be stacked the one of course attached to select a piece of data that you upload to Swan and the primary serves to to mitigate and spam spam in the network and thereby expunging this equivalent content distract me but also by Bariatrics postage stamps different layers we also indicate priority much like me just a very old-fashioned so C is postage stamp which of your systems literature you can can you believe how much basically incentive what four five minutes to get redistributed let's take this for second met with a slightly worse this is Estonia guarantee as well evidence only insurers staked stores special subsystem so special subset of to at the store net which actually make a stronger and more reliable promises of story it's real information expiry date by by a taking a higher premium that's trooper storage needs but at the same time taking more responsibility plan by stating there because it's the swearing single factor for it's fine insurance which takes care of the tragedy of comments but return to the previous question I can see key treating first tools right next food is a very interesting collaboration synergy day with the postage stamps no seriously witness solution for retention postage stamp to change actually reveals not necessarily an identity was a chemistry lab at least it creates link ability of value strings together which makes information that and the zookie type explain intrusion please the key constructs can can hear pitches of such extent so I hope it was not too technical so basically if you're slacking yes will be still attending various Thank You Victor it wasn't too technical for me I don't think this also our audience I think is used to a lot of technical stuff I am getting a fantasy about listening to you and shorty at the same time left and right in my ears but we don't have time for that Rinka a question for you again I'm so sorry I don't want to like bother you this much this evening but yeah this is I think the perfect question for you what was the I'll rephrase it a little bit but what was like the hardest part to build to solve to implement for you and the dev team and maybe you want to give the words to someone who really really worked hard yeah so I think if we're talking about swarm perhaps the hardest part is the research which goes into designing the system and designing all the components and and actually also the incentives and the token economics and figuring it out how you're expecting that users are going to interact with those applications because it's a decentralized application it's not something which I run on my laptop and it is kind of known how it's going to behave no we are just building a node and this node is going to interact with other computers which are all around the rules and and we cannot make assumptions about how those notes are going to behave so this is very difficult and this is yeah creating an application which is intended to work in a network of other decentralized applications which I just all interacting and and the thinking about is in a recent image it's very hard but actually I'm not the right person to answer because the ones I think yeah no he can answer this question please yeah it's easy when you know how and what you are building so well I I can tell for example that we iterated a lot on on on syncing protocols and actually we we discovered that that we we have have to have two of them and not so regarding stuff that is released in be currently I would say that we spent a significant amount of time iterating how our singing protocols would behave in order to achieve balanced replication and and and efficient distribution of chunks within their neighborhood yeah but in general I also agree with the Rinka about the complexity of incentivization so this is a huge area or of of protocols and and well our our knowledge is still at the face that that we we have to iterate on more but much much much much at much better situation than before indoors and also addressing the complexity we have a lot of protocols and a lot of protocols will be added so all the time was invested in in deciding what how to model arise and and address maintainability of complex system by this some thanking janosh the next question might have a very quite simple answer I did not see any guest transactions swarm is still free it does not require any eater is that correct someone's asking you guys what's the answer this one no I had Inca not again you're like you're like this this kid I had they died school they by classroom was always like yeah I do the answer I know the answer nobody oh my god no Donny Donny Donny I'm sorry there are too many people on my screen my screen is I should buy a bigger screen like Jordi set so Daniel so we would like to make it as transparent as possible so we you don't going you're not going to need either in order to join the network but you will need to provide service on an outfit question so the first few things suit if you enter without either you will need to do the first few steps and then with the first payment you're also going to receive sufficient detail work for desk so basically from a user experience and onboarding perspective the answer is that we managed to engineer the initial eater out of out of it so you can enter the system without that intercom cause we're but of course since this is on etherium at least the part of the material it will require to pay for gas but you will be able to earn that either early on when you join them of course where either you can always stop rejuvenative token of whatever other given the option we're talking about so on the RS game network it's going to be hardly history on the period plasticity or the native token is voidable on DM based blockchains but we managed to throw the that's awesome I loved how you're engineered either out of storm and next question is maybe and I really want to ask this question to Gregor Gregor can you talk a bit about the third data society and the third data principles that are like almost like inherent I would say to his farm this is like one of the last questions we can do if you will help me I will definitely help you but he want me to do it's kind of the society is kind of like a complementary it's kind of continuous with in a way and you know it's like connecting the social with the tech so if we speak before about the narrow waist and so on enabling this ecosystems one is neutral it's all about neutrality but when we as developers if we think about what kind of applications we are going to build the touch upon the human we also need to start to think about things like ethics and how to proceed and thirdly the society addresses this at the same time very later societies an ecosystem initiative wants to basically just be proactive but also helping developers with libraries best practices etc what would you add I would add that it is goddamn time people make money on their own data instead of all these giant corporations doing so and then trading our data for money on Wall Street I think this day these days should be over pretty soon so that would be my answer today so maybe the last question unless someone tells me we can keep going but the last question would be how the swarm compared with file coin IPs made safe storage you know all these other projects who are doing decentralized storage with sort of an incentivization layer who wants to take this on and I hope I'm not missing asked regular again maybe No so I don't want to answer actually answer it Gail is a bit shy yes I know right I was I was I had the exact same feeling I Gabriel can you just speak about anything because I just love to hear you talk hey yes I noticed it but probably the worst introduction effort that I just and no I say as I said before we believe in building a user centric internet and and we believe that users should have the right to choose but I think what we're trying to do here is creating the storage layers interoperable among them and and the blockchain layers as well and hopefully together we're also going to be able to bring the communities together this is something that we had RSK have been pushing forward for many years now and I'm super excited about this collaboration with a small team because it's a clear example on how when when we have a goal in mind and I mean the technology that we are using I mean it's useless if we if it doesn't have a purpose as Jordi said before so I think what would unites all of us here in the panel and the audience is is this goal in mind that we are crazy enough to believe that a better world is possible and definitely a censorship resistance and the possibility of store or personal data and take care of it and not become a product anymore to be sold in the markets it's critical to this that's a world that we hope but it but it won't happen by itself actually maybe if we don't do something very strong and very quickly the world is going to to go to a worse situation that it was before [Music] and in this part of kovaydin and just not only corporations profiting out of the users but also governments surveilling ourselves and just going no one is going to stop them unless we as a global community as a global network of individuals around the world just tell them this is enough and that we want to to build a different world so I I think this collaboration and this amazing group of people here are just an example of that that you know a better future is possible Gabriel you never disappoint thank you so much for that answer I think we all get even more inspired for working towards a shared goal we have if any I know we all have so many things to say and we have to round it up somewhere I believe this is a beautiful moment to end the show ban you agree I see Gabriel thank you so much for this for Jordy as well it was you know so inspiring to hear you as always everybody by the way so yeah still again it's just some housekeeping please join our telegram group so we can continue this conversation please keep asking all your questions on reddit twitter etc and you will find this thing on YouTube maybe you're watching this on YouTube right now or maybe you will be watching this in ten year in ten years from now and then you are wondering what YouTube is well YouTube was a very centralized video storage kind of thing before we had swarm running the Internet with that I say goodbye to you all from Antwerp I love this show decision and I hope we get to do this again in the future thank you so much everybody and see you soon