ETHKL#2 Part 2: SmartPesa & Sentinel Chain

[Music] all right I'm going to use our next two guests Roy and and Carsten in your camera so you should buy this book will have a lot of technical background I thought we make it a bit more technical I'm not technical person myself so please forgive me to write most of you know royal family from sin country the secular changes one of the things that equal caucus bill right if the CEO of and Eduardo sanity he one of the many things he's done before is to let efforts to develop the ESP Singapore real-time payment network across 14 banks and in Foucault has essentially developed financial vanishing fusion most of you probably know me from subtlety and tokenizing house or CTO and smart visa he has more than 30 years of experience of building solutions and determining systems in financial services and smart Pizza deployments and it is event continued with emerging markets and they've also built a credible which essentially takes the data emerges and puts upon technology so to expand a bit more hardwire just say can you give a quick introduction to what details and I'll give you three minutes this time so introduce myself Torsten towards the human based in Singapore originally from South Africa and so on a technical background like sharing the community in discussing topics how the design things are detected what's what reasons that has already build a technology solutions for the emerging markets focusing on payments and agency banking so what we do is we really look at the market we say there's not access to finance and what I mean by infrastructure is if you are having cash you need some way to move that the cash around and so we we saw a Philippines Malaysia and Indonesia in the other neighboring countries is that there's not enough financial touch points so even though you might be working somewhere it might have a bank account like the uncompact you know you can't easily transact you also don't have any benefit from the bank's right is they gonna know anything about you and who you are they don't know how much money you pay they don't profile you properly so we said well if we can build that infrastructure out to build that Network to help the banks and their reach were actually solving Financial Inclusion problems and so the summary is we've been doing this for four years into a lot of these emerging markets - Roy met with the likes of the AED Asian Development Bank and rural banks and traveled in too far and strange places but that's really mean in pursuit of pushing this age payments agenda and so that's kind of our recent history where we've done seen an angel but there were revenue generating business and we had some - blockchain and that's why we were sitting in today but enjoyed I am a co-founder of organizational change in technology scissors based in a company that aims to solve the most power problems I mention inclusion to reduce of long chain technologies how we talk about with this concept of tsukino chain right we essentially not really has counted and actually I'm very impressed with my friend it was the press is solving a very tough problem which we try to solve it easily which is pretty good right but mean the thing is that it was a very difficult moment or some financial inclusion because in Southeast Asia about what is 73% of the adult population not many men accounts that is without access to initial services or can afford whatever pain services to most people thanks to provide this to young banks was a combined years so the incentive for banks to do statements is knowing specifically it's actually more safer for them if you detect that if you're holding on to cash and of course the tales of free peoples are temperature sensitive so the adoption problem is the profit is very difficult to solve unless it's not that their money and they can probably use electronic credits to make so but then it solve the third problem we realized over the different kinds of open right so yeah district competition verifiable at each of this problem as our previous police estimation is at the top of anti industry - saw his bad self right because the there's no way to really prove that how much young bang were actually worth and not to create a credit history it takes time right so you could come back as own money or no cash what do they have right so according to this totally autonomous community sort of he estimated twenty point nine trillion dollars worth of informal asset that has been recognized and both of us a separate event title so you can be able to move organize it and prove that virtual is a cell you can but not do for more financing right from the state capital other livia days could solve that kind of problem partly because torch itself has limited authority but it could be used either way right because if the data is corrupted before it enters it will not change don't see that the solution to solve a right but I think that we look at what does the Undine have this exit and that is in formalized what a 50% interacted consciousness so if life stops and if we can find a way to prove that times the velocity then they can have a way to prove that they were that what I said and they both do that use this table to create collectors of those 48 there are other parts of - how we talk about with the smaller ones okay so the same question you start off badass apparent robbery is now what that is lucky for you technology so in position what we saw as a payment in an agency thank you my dear son the market is fragmented and that what I mean with that is that you've got something choices like I said you can't force somebody else at least with digital but when you see you know telomers pushing with smoothly chats and honey one has a QR codes all these the comedian something up and what we realized us focusing really on the merchants focusing on the businesses that play this pivotal role all these communities are the ones like the provision shops and the retailers and pharmacies and motorbike repair shops is that think of the problem accepting mystical experience and hourly journey started by looking at two currencies and saying well how do we some of the currencies of normal value and so it has cryptocurrencies how are they use it in the day to day and so that's where our journey started on that daunting blockchain technology putting a part of our platform so if you have a merchant in 20 buying goods are the cultural thing for you motorbike tire and you can do that in its Bitcoin litecoin - and so taking that risk away with a bunch of isn't to know about all the technical complexity he just once we pay now you might wonder if that's not too early and so that he is with what we have seen is that there's been a strong push in this reputation and then will continue so it's almost beginning in early in positioning ourselves well because I'm speaking to manage the Philippines were saying how recited in crypto payments how do we take that crypto give it to our part exchange debt and settle into putting pencils for the election to receiving their bank account and so with the regulators being more men looking at these stuff options and direction this was our energies into mulching but I mean I will carry it if I don't think that crypto itself is perfect or that well-suited for payments and so they discipline valuing actually was blockchain for data as opposed to just using tokens for payments which will produce them I think there's a perception that Portuguese lived abatements but because of how we came up opportunity point I think actually David is very typical for me so musically and bitcoin is not in a very good as for electronic activity but I think that it's quite important that the blockchain is not about is its property of marketability and is something that traditional database can be resolved until you may have the differences in that control get on the ship this is decentralized and for that matter you you have a way to create more trusted people so why is it I'm going able to solve this problem currently using blockchain but previously in my example right the some of our missing is in your markets by livestock from the last ten is the Arabian is wonderful something people to provide in isolation so officials why but so typically the power we have like many cows right there like 20 cows that she comes about but it doesn't share this one cow right yes because they want to come tie it is sort of cloudy conditions it is paper given for this just five o'clock there's my insurance company water discussion so for ten years they can solve this for so genomic it was to create it to use the blockchain not as a financial instrument but we use it as a solution for the proof of provenance and because of the trend of problems that's why we're able to sort of I can show you directly and this tracking of prominence is attained achieve or Dennis what project has brought was a traditional and emergent really Snow White historically correct me if I'm wrong I believe both their projects are building your own protocols and is a permission not see each other instead of free public decentralized yes so just do a position incredible properly what we've looked at as we've looked at this problem of data that is being cycle because especially in emerging markets you really have as that's why I said different different organizations that don't trust each other and they don't actually work with each other- would otherwise share data but by using by using box change Authority we can do that we can take data in our case we're focusing on the merchant paper so we say there's a business we know about that business we know what is there what is there there Kim I see waters in their interior other data and these agreements of different insurance policies who their trading partners are and of course what is their payment activity and we're able to put that on some clock chance incredible is a permission private network operating in its own ecosystem with 10 dimension with MongoDB for storing things and across the promoter and through the immutability is making an assessment of numerous parts so now you can have a telecom of my Croatia answer auto finance Erlinda gonna house share the same data through the private network the trick of course is that just after marching on its own does not history so the usage problem because it's been incentive is be a training mechanism and so the important part now is to have a function on a private network that has some sort of government some sort of the structure and that's a Viet Nam interface and a community supporting uh but it still has to integrate and interact with year c24 with at least a an external clock chain and lots of manual transfer and so to answer aggression against passivity private long chain network with its own notes for the storing of all business credit data and then making them accessible through Yoshiko to interrupt through bridges so there's bank transfer for buying and selling Amedeo going in the ideal world I would like everything to be on the pocket so full trust business being able to maximize what they shot watching was something that mission which I probably but they says once we we other we know what's the type of problem we're facing about watching the world the scalability problems like the slow confirmation time right Scott chief physician fees and predictable we becomes that these kind of problems be exposed right over to our text it would understand what the harmonious way for me noise on a report with them so when they're faced with our problems how do you bring something that is so so much old into something that's of real right is that either have a breach we need to have a different set of properties or four different type of long chains so in the case of signal change we created material side chain right there is a consultant not change the volume of the legal business entities that are verified by technology and they arrest commentators on the children now this provide more sanitized environments before business and identity to function again because the public watching ball is very suitable for consumer to consumer yet okay transactions but in in the equatorial all right you want to know who you're dealing with right most of the time you want to buy a product from a brand that you that's unknown right know whether they are tomorrow you won't sign an opinion with someone unless you can prove this identity is accountable for so these are the things that are missing in people in this part of in the console to changed we have taken some of the protocols for the world right and accepted damages at what some of the those projects that is conducive for working in the real world they cross chains for sections not much more towards stable science so these are all important elements that we need to make the odd shape user over the real world and finally at the individual controller we have production called the cross Dana hood so Trust is essentially where the livestock identity they are being kept and is accessible by the other team and this is not what I mean by different audiences to represent pieces need to find a way to give these two worlds right and so I heard here an ounce of actually viewing and what you expected you wanna call that words okay dub but this publishes were interesting because viewing a book is essentially giving the same a preached something wrong with both of us are using parity viewing on senses now VOA is using the US public lotteries or as the validators right and they rely essentially on the reputation of [Music] but we got released as a collector right so you know you basically have to trust them yes data publicly verifiable by the people that I study use documents so in all these is that we be part of the world clearly network is not we are basically working with business entities that are verifiable across different countries they're the reason for them to exist on some mochi you get as a business function for them to perform so protect you sometimes within that group right the chances that they will be destroying the business and the reputation is as free as well so this is the main difference between the two and the policy between puree it's also to demonstrate the ability to create yes eternity to Eternity bridges so that your eternity tokens that is existing in the public understand the network right can cross over from the near certainty bridge incentive or into the something that right now so why would someone do that but because it's a signal environment is trusted as compact or fully trusted environment on a theory so by creating this breach we create an opportunity for token developers to choose whether do they want to continue using these contracts or their tokens on the trust environment or the trust and cross over into Center chain the muscle in either party or their tokens to operate go straight edge is now different our chains in the bridges second language it will reserve that topic for a future we operate a bit more a lot more death than so watch out for others future videos coming up next question is for firstly so you were expected it is not on how credible it will be compared with 22 years so initially and second seat of secrecy can you explain a little bit more about what that means okay to share personal to the purity presentation of Commerce and the trade finance the certain segments of business have been very well addressed for us we look at these markets and we see that the kind of the real intention behind the GDP growth behind the activity is trade but it is a lot of the smaller medium businesses really those those kind of rural areas where this business going on buying and selling but nobody knows about businesses the reason I'm going up the business is because it's all about how am I going off the individuals apart from livestock making have assets and it can be electrolyzed but only individuals that these markets looking for credit presenter high risk they might not have very good identity documents they might not be traceable they might not be they committed to repaying the debt we look at businesses businesses are much more established right so is the citizens of the Financial Inclusion now they've grown provider and if they are all the community they have a premises there's only a whole family behind it they have you know everybody from from the car to to the kitchen there everything is part of that business and what you see is that these businesses have lack of access to credit bank of access to finance so if we talk about financial news what is businesses generally means they the invoices they were to renovate their stores they don't like my inventory they want their products this everything is cash everything involves money but if you don't know about this businesses you're not going to lend to these businesses so the comparison and to the credit bureaus is in the Western it's a sphere these critical errors like TransUnion memory banks horse tails these organizations a lot of data about market land but what they do is they monetize that data so they they're collecting with information about you yourself pretty about me about all these businesses and they're selling at data and is a multi-billion dollar companies so the the issue that we see is that in image analysis is an absence there is no such presence of these data bureaus and finish the data is chilling bad is no incentive to have good quality data now if you're a business of Europe if you're merchants your trainer nobody want to get the best insurance package that is out there somebody's going to be able to hook you up and probably able to find you when I've got a profile you would say actually I see that this business stuff 50 data points that they've had I can see what this arbitrary I can see the attacks numbering I can see their trading history or their insurance policies and then work with that data that data becomes very valuable and so that's where the critter bureaus the West have become very powerful but they've also not particularly the data very well by different attacked in the news has been like 150 million records leaked so we think that by putting that on the blockchain getting the control to the merchant owns the data generates the data and to interface with the Box chain dance that's an alternate form of credit bureau and if that's an open platform where people be behind that data we've got marketing to consumers who are looking for data trying to end up by the marketing to know if it's the search becoming businesses are within this vicinity or data they have and then we wouldn't data the straights decentralized critical rules will be much points that don't exist today because for sources you use it then your end users but Roy would you see that your end users the people who actually using the product rupak are the farmers themselves or their other Casey desmith don't talk about yes right now it is this one is a b2b system right so even though we have some tokens you will not be exposed regardless you won't understand what you understand and even you could talk about the grill is this operation to my disposal straightforward as you need to have the contractual agreement on how the tokens gonna be used now of course it doesn't stop us from eventually become a b2b - b2c which is essentially what we wanted to that said come they're saying basically is able to transcend it says operating as a p2p but into the consumer space as well that is awesome but you stops us computer it's just as where it's being used by consumers it is a local initiative which means that essentially is the close to payment system which always talked about that finite differences so that there would be operation of different countries regulate this immunity but is one of the recent precedents of our central bank's use intervention to the policies you want to manage to issue to trade the card given the set of a traditional promises to the commercial values or you understand open issue that we need to address reasons so in three categories you would be maybe under international banks to be able to take that route we will be completing a political instances so what we chose to focus on be TPS more sensible practical solution for now [Music] okay and I'm sorry breakfast how would you describe your users joy only to be clients or partners how will you use the sector it's a very good question so essentially said said no changes for supporter marketplace facilitating initial services to be delivered to many countries through life stop that set so on one hand we have the band right now has the ability to prove that they actually own this partisan on the other hand right we have investors right who are looking for new alternative investments space where I can have created before so this created the new identity of eventual for investments for these people to dance and sit on the planet 220 countries now right because they are we don't know what I understand to astronomers parents supporting this tactic that is called the airport base about the transparency countries but right now is a way for me to say that okay I think I can right now - mm I really don't want there's one scintilla JT so very right and interest agrees with these two o'clock and you know that the property Olaf borrowers and Bank board actually holds this much Commerce is bank accounts all of a sudden we are going to measure is a certain dimensions and it gives the micro lender local area a higher chance to actually complete the product recipes by using technology receive an infomercial and what which are merchants already [Music] so you know I know ecosystem what we do with what we have been doing this for you just to make a bit more real as we have these terminals right at one point or more is terminal 3 two point eight thousand eleven so we have sorry is it city the community active through you can come down the reason why it's not the most ideal comparison is because we start off with fear and we work with banks right so I love science Appalachian up a bank very big bank in malaysia c nbhec for the piece different banks that we work with for doing theater processing today and because we're putting these actual terminals and Merchants already in awarding and signing up this becomes interface to the blockchain but they don't have to know about the technology and I all have to do is click about them and say I'm going to add an information about my my my lease or among the car that I own as a business and so because we're using missile payments today in agency where you're actually playing the role of a bank branch you're interfacing with with with back in with the blockchain so to answer question in this case the merchant is the one that receives token so I'm a business of a small business and I've got inventory of selling and of course up with some business in cash but often some business electronically especially about providing agency banking right way because it's coming in to withdraw money from their accounts and pay the bills but at the same time about this always connected to my desktop interface we project well how does done achieve okay because I came from banking in space so actually my first a big part of it was mainly because I wanted to do some arbitrage between different exchanges and make some money out of it right so there were a lot of this a lot of pricing so he was a great musician that not so passionate about it that's not even 2 T between Legion yeah let's get something so that I went into the in the banking in space and I realized that a lot of centralizing situations actually very expensive systems and it is employed an additional skill now the problem I see that is in the top down in a centralized system is very calm down kind of approach and not many of the bottom of the pyramid is going to be able to benefit from from this is approaches would take decades to build infrastructure into it the resources especially for those students development won't have the kind of maturity the structures in place so she created the opportunity for us to be thinking - how could deploy bottom-up approach and the crowd at the grassroot level that previously annoying technology has authority to do that so that's how I got [Music] any advice for people listening how to get started into the technical side how to get started or changed or tasteless to become a book you really have to type it and one of the problem why a lot in with you guys much doctrine use abilities is big problems because it's not only design or they may it's what you learn it's actually teach to which designers right so whether you are technical or not my suggestion is that I really look wasn't trying predators that was going to see as a llama be extracted the way to make the concept person over right the point is not whether it's obvious at this one sense unless you really did it right and it went to understand you even have to interested only I mean as as much as they might close our boxes I would be that one basically but the whole kind of chain development is the community that goes with the practice a lot of sharing it's very open with the gentleman when we said you know in terms of doing business in certain markets it's very close and it's very rigid within the blockchain community it's about you know male agent about education tackling different topics and to always point absolutely it is like I cannot get - lots of different layers so once you work on the outermost layer and you clicking on an exchange it becomes very easy but I would encourage just looking at like other medium courses for making easy and very open digestible and how we get started - it's like truffle and all the opens those tools it or just need something to get up testing it off so think you technical intonation on it's the interest but it doesn't need to come with years experience towards point is still very new and it is very different so somebody might just pick up from blockchain just start there and then play with different concepts Elizabeth like they go you know put the pieces together but but there's enough open source material there's really good spot there they're searching in the curiosity what you do that to your point Roy in it it's much more natural and then and then you can design it for economic the most I think to close off course the impressive thing is making a puncturing project real-world relevant actually keep gonna use a purpose and not just having some coin found something down value dogecoin exactly exactly avoiding those kind of projects or a whole lot of the scams right until it's about having a real application of the blockchain topology all right no no thanks a lot right boss [Applause] there's some time for Q&A from the audience so anyone who is willing to ask publicly these introduce yourself first and then ask your questions very forever back to oh yes it's warm hi I'm Joseph from rejects that work would like to ask about demons since you guys are the contains to me there are two major problems to be given the first one is that the fluctuation of very important idiot the other one is with versity i would like to ask from your fee and how how you get blessings because what it 42 we have the time of seconds general food chance talk we're worried about two minutes but that's okay if not listening quietly but imagine that particular starts you know be the KFC with a whole human we can be for one minute for for business go truth before we process an expired how do you how do you think Bo pinion address this design let me take payments part first because absolutely a link in 42nd comment payments I'd have various charges you prefer of commies accept Bitcoin payments online and in e-commerce where it's not that real-time business to decisive on the protein itself the broadcast of the transaction happening does spread across all 10,000 Bitcoin nodes in our second six to eight seconds that's just the announcement right that's not yet the confirmation and you've got the wrong time afterwards so the challenge there is can you take that confirmation and that broadcast has a confirmed transaction because if you work around to where that this work with payments one of the R&D projects that we put forward to banks have demonstrated on 1 May net is that we're not making a big move genomic being or innocence I'm generating a one-time if you are and one-time wallet address so what an address going on between the two of us at the point in time of the transaction so if I make payment and he sees that broadcast it kind of means that I've been able to take that snapshot I've ever needed to take that wallet address and make the payment and witness that right away and then the business more effectively under because you say okay these two people must be doing business together right now perhaps the suppression of collusion on some other elements that still have risk but principally the produce the risk already have seen up to a certain amount so that is volatility does not consider the volatility that's just a technical solution but maybe either longshoreman is even at this point payments are not changed on a radical method optional regional adoption and we will keep on the data side anyway you so limited that they are not because I was reading that lightning was similar type they are to scale solutions of the plasma or other hearing side chain approaches better Kaspar a better that using the technology that's there today the immersion is value and the for mentioning some citizen commissioners I expect us doubt that don't use Internet must be because of course probably it is just mentions right so that is the reason why we use a consultant launching a product or change to communicate the limitations of the public watching novice that he rent a property needs a suspect on my trust the case of personal change we rely on that leaders to perform proper authority consensus supposed to work on a public option so that's shape the time to bicycles no that is only really because we need to use certain technologies we do not need use the spa contracts basically attacked the prospect level which is a different production platform technology yes right now so that that is how we manage different levels of the walls that one knee basis ready which is one of the transfer value which is present we don't even need a contractor to that right but you once and my partner's whether the speech rate always come in the second question is one who tell you right now you already say that the remedies we give you complan if countries because nobody's with the video the place definitely would be points like your tokens right so the we have to do in fact these in every countries that we deploy across may be a local local Fiat because of them which is a stable quite panic - yeah local currencies now they are many way to do it because if you look at all that gold more than said respect my code right that body this is suspect by Jacqueline see that's all okay and of course then to prevent provide more transparency Zatoichi the South is basically the mechanism right used to monitor how sentence is converted to the different local currencies right by the exchange contracts so this is how we do [Music] okay that was a very long answer I imagine you guys can discuss it even walk towards another question before we sign off and get you guys to networking to do all right then applause all right [Applause]