Chicago Ethereum Meetup | NFTs with Andrew Steinwold and Kinchasa

okay hey everybody welcome to the chicago ethereum meetup very excited to chat about nft some today we've got um garrett kinchassa um logowitz uh joining us as well as andrew steinwald and very excited for talks from each of them um and after that we'll have a panel and chat more about nfts so thanks again for joining uh i think we're gonna have uh garrett kick things off first so very excited to hear more so thanks that sounds good let's uh let's boogie it looks like you need to share the screen sharing feature if i'm not mistaken uh what a new move okay that has that is now fixed got it sounds good well yeah thank you guys for uh for coming out braving the brave and the cold in the inside no so i got my pope token my pull-off thanks for sending that got my street cred there next to intercon yeah so i just wanted to uh jump in and we're gonna talk nfts so um put together this presentation for uh startup week coming up in a couple weeks and i just kind of sped things up and skip over some of the basics because it seems like you guys kind of know you know the ropes a little bit having minted stuff having bought stuff you know knowing that super rare is pretty cat's pajamas and async is pretty cool vlad it's nice to hear you guys knowledge so far so um just a little bit about myself i'm a business business marketing guy you know um worked in the manufacturing sector for like 10 or 12 years and got super hooked on crypto collectibles like two years ago i got a crypto late 2018 you know on the down slope still dropped from there but uh uh found god's unchained after digging around just a ton about like what do you do with your cryptocurrency and i figured out um there's pure digital products that people are making that are scarce um ownable verifiable you know and so it's um it's pretty interesting so that kind of got me hooked on this base and um that was over a year and a half ago now so just kept nerding out ever since so here's my my crypto punk which i represent on pretty much all my handles um the floor for you know those of you who aren't familiar with crypto punks are the first nft on the ethereum blockchain at least and um since they became more readily saleable across other platforms because they predated the erc 721 standard so they're kind of this mutant erc20 fungible token and now they're you know in the good graces of uh the nft standards so the price floor shot up to like five youth on these so they're you know it's my two thousand dollar avatar it's it's pretty it's pretty nifty uh so yeah this is the quite nifty presentation so uh yeah i just come out swinging uh you know i came into crypto for the money but i like to say i'm standing for the revolution i don't know how many of you out there are like crazy bullish on this technology um but it's it's fascinating i mean i think crypto's as big as the internal combustion engine only strapped to a comet you know looming in the sky ready to make landfall i mean it's that big of a deal and it's gonna wipe out some dinosaurs and it's gonna be crazy just you know given how many of our institutions are just totally complacent and seeing um this new like you know the bankless guys i don't know if you follow them but they're just on it they talk about this stuff ethereum being like a supra national like settlement layer of value and and that just kind of blows my mind that you're able to operate in a totally different environment and just create this new internet of value that's what a lot of people are kind of calling it um and nfts as we're gonna discuss is sort of like this new emerging media in that context of this newfangled interwebs that we're building uh so yeah you hear the word decentralized thrown around a lot you know andrew threw it around i heard you there earlier about xdi talking smack about decentralization um but i mean yeah it's a it's a term a lot of people see it as a buzzword but it's really dense with information and if you unpack decentralization you think about the resilience of a network how easy it is to to gain the system or cheat the system um really it's how unstoppable something is um and that's actually pretty potent it's kind of a dangerous idea really that like you know you could uh in theory start your own pirate bay but of x you know this is like the uber of x for you know um unstoppable organizations and products so it's kind of wild the centralization is something to kind of strive for it's aspirational really at this point because a lot of projects aren't fully decentralized you know they rely on some kind of centralized player and that weakness i think people poke holes in but we're getting there um yeah and then just you know the other smack talk you hear about blockchain and stuff is this technology's glorified database um which at the end of the day it is it's a distributed database but it's i think of it as like this giant robot accountant that does our bidding for us by like figuring out who owns what when and in what wallet um and that digital ledger that distributed ledger technology um it's like it's kind of uh yeah i don't know it's it's definitely definitely disruptive um i had some other stuff to say on that but i'm drawing a blank right now but what's cool about it is that it enables us to now experiment with all sorts of um financial primitives and establishing new ones and we're we're screwing with money i like to think of it as we're playing around with money and so we're not just creating new financial parameters we're playing around with like a very like civilization primitive money agreeing as a society on what has value and helping that lubricate the economy by solving for the um coincidence of wants which is when you have to barter to get stuff that you want you know and so money is really helpful to solve for that so anyway um so money is great you know we subscribe to this notion that heath is money erc's you know are this proxy for value on the internet of value and nfts are cool because i think that we're starting to essentially subscribe now to this idea that erc721s are stuff um i tweeted about this before you know with the salt and pepper uh reference let's talk about stuff baby let's talk about nfts okay so i had to get that reference out there um let's kind of let's keep jamming on that you know what what are nfts um so if cryptocurrency is screwing with money nfts are screwing with property stuff um and money's great but money's boring okay you know who wants to listen to the guy at cocktail party talking for hours about his bags you know crypto speak for the the currencies you hold oh man i got so much hex on this last airdrop dude you're not gonna believe the bags right win moon right meow man i'm telling ya uh so you don't want to be that guy you want to be in the corner with that guy um but sometimes it's fun to be the guy that has these shiny digital artifacts that are interesting and unique and fun and um you know at the end of the day everybody wants money they want more of it but what do they want it for they want it for things and they want it for experiences and they also do kind of um subconsciously want it for different symbols um and those are you know the pull-out badges you know that street cred that you get with that token that i was there this is that ticket stuff man i saw the dead you know halfway across this country to one you know um somebody who goes on tour at you know metagame meetups is like the new uh groupie of the web3 world no so so symbols what i'm trying to get at here is nfts represent stuff so things experiences or symbols and oftentimes they can be many of those things at once um and it's kind of more powerful when you do that and that's why i think andrew is so bullish on you know the metaverse on virtual reality because it gets very meta the metaverse is very meta like you have crypto art on the walls in the digital real estate art gallery that you own and in theory you can get tickets to go to those early showings of these art galleries so there's just nfts on fts and nfts um and it's cool because when you go to those and then you get the the token that you were there um you have that symbol you have that status that comes with it so yeah experiences i think are you know obviously tickets vr real estate um playing the games um is using the thing you know so it's this experience um and that carries with it just societal like signals that like matter to us as humans it shows what tribe we're in and that's really powerful um when you're trying to identify with the group and fit in and uh and stuff like that so it's kind of this new form of media um it's like weird i mean we're gonna see it as like the stock and trade of like a new sort of social media like where nfts just happen to flow like erc20s are now on reddit you can give donuts and um a couple other types of tokens and different subreddits but they'll be like kudos for reddits where you can give people nfts eventually um and that'll kind of lubricate different social interactions and be you know more broad than just i came to the conference it could be some other kind of use case i'm kind of grasping at one now but um so those are really what nfts boil down to in my mind anyway um so it's anything that's not money it's stuff i did i threw together this little pyramid just of like what i kind of perceive as the increasing utility as you go down this pyramid um collectibles are just kind of g whiz hey i've got this in my wallet it's novel because i own it and it's you know fairly easy to resell even though it's kind of not that liquid because there's only a very small market for some of these collectibles um crypto art is cool you can show it off it has a little bit more utility in my perspective tickets like i said are a thing but they get you an experience um and that's a great you know use case for you know virtual reality meetups and stuff but it'll ultimately kind of potentially disrupt ticket mastering we're going to kind of talk about how nfts are going to start to bleed into irl this is going to come into the real world and really start to have major ramifications domain names vlad glad you're getting on the ens train uh you know the ethereum name service is one of the leading um web3 domain name registrars which operate in a totally new namespace it's not on dns um it's a totally new galaxy and you use the interplanetary file system to put your inner web site on it so uh yeah it's a little bit funny unpacking that language when you tell someone what ipfs stands for but you know it comes with the territory you explain what a dao is a decentralized autonomous organization and you get people just like okay you just said autonomous it's almost as bad as when you say the word fungible in non-fungible token to an army because they just start to twitch and convulse and uh you know tell you that you're fungible you know what you're fungible bro you could i could interchange you with any other of these pukes spitting off you know buzz words every five seconds so i like to to throw it back that uh we gotta come up with language that's not so yeah it's just we use these terms as crutches so i'll get into that a little bit but yeah the domain names are are pretty sick i'm super bullish on them i'm probably one of the top three ens whales in the space across my wallets um and i think it's the new.com i think it's a big deal i'm bullish on the ethereum space um i regularly airdropped them on people i bought defiant and hollered at camila russo and like here have this like you know someone's gonna squat on this so i'm just going to rob and hood it for you okay um that's what more people should be doing is just kind of creating goodwill in the space and not not squatting on anyway that's my psa on domain names um game items you know have a lot of utility because you can use them you can sell them they um they're a stock and trade it's a good in and of itself but they can have you know powers and things with them and you can in theory use games in a virtual reality world environment you know andrew was riffing on that in one of his posts about you know we should try and have a gods unchained like room where you can go into and play with other people and their avatars and um that could be powerful to just drag more people into the space once you start to kind of um make nfts more composable start to put these you know stuffed legos together these are not money legos these are stuff legos so we got to just keep smashing nfts together um yeah so let's just jump into the meat of it i know we don't have much time left but um this is some pixel art that i bought and i like to just open up with uh you know if you think the internet's weird now just wait let's let's take the red pill and go down this rabbit hole uh you know wearable is a prime example of how weird web3 is you scroll on the speed just make sure you're not at work because that not safe for work filter does not work at all and there's plenty unsafe stuff for work without drilling down and filtering by that this is some new rari pepe art that came out um pretty meta scroll feed overary within this super old computer little nod to the uniswap airdrop um yeah wearables like 4chan had a love child with magical internet money and it just got really weird but it's cool like to see how they're blowing up and to see watching the rankings and who used to be up at the top of wearable you know it used to be robnes it used to be osiris max osiris um some of these stalwarts of the trash art scene you know what you may have you've seen 64 gallon you know trash toters selling for ether you know um that was kind of a seminal moment in um wearable versus gated platform art history where there's some censorship really um people deciding what was art and what was not art and kind of unilaterally making that decision to pull down um a 64 gallon trash to order off a super and um i got to give wearable and super rare props because they're doing their own game different ways i think there's something good and noble about like a permissionless openless open uh platform like wearable and that allows anyone to create art to earn from their digital art i think there's something powerful about that but we're seeing the warts and all outcome of that with wash trading you know we're seeing a lot of um dubious content a lot of stolen content so there's there's problems that come with the permissionlessness and hopefully the rare governance token can help solve for that and empower the community to kind of coalesce around how to make those decisions how to grow the platform and things like that so it's a cool experiment to see unfold um seeing any rc20 kind of power on the 721 so yeah their volume is big um it looks a lot bigger on dapp radar you know having done 16 17 million non-fungible kind of has a different story um volume being like two and a half million but you can see up in the upper left it says major wash trading in bold letters in the brackets so maybe they're taking that into account i don't think there's that much watch trading but um so nfts though like people will poke holes in nfps and just tell you like anyone could upload that art and steal an art and re-tokenize it well yeah anyone can steal anything there's going to be bad actors all over the place and it's still a caveat emptor situation buyer beware in latin you know you need to know what you're buying and you should reach out to artists learn about their their process maybe before buying if if you're really that concerned about or if you don't know what to look for what's original so um i would just say do your homework do your own research just like in regular crypto um so yeah it's doing some big money i mean crypto art's done seven million um almost half of that super rare is done alone um they just hit three million um so they're doing gangbusters and what's crazy about super rare is i think it's just because of that simple like one of one it's these are this is the one digital copy that exists the simplicity of that is maybe why they have such a thriving secondary marketplace because the collectors have collectively earned a million dollars too in flipping super rares um so that's really the gold standard for liquidity in nfts is seeing what super rare does and following that market they post it on the home page you can look and click the activity and then see top artists and top collectors it's a great way to shop go browse drill down look at the top artists in the last 30 days or six months and you can get a sense of like who the players are and go into their wallet and see who they collect and if you see an artist who you kind of like their stuff look and see what other artists own them and that's kind of a signal as to the quality so i recently you know invested some serious coin into some tactile pieces this south african artist um who does these renderings that are like um just these stone like orbs and squares these very primitive like shapes um with very interesting textures and then he makes like a hand i have a hand when i can show off here shortly um but i saw pock owns him you know efficient a bunch of og artists own tattoos so i'm like yeah i'm gonna buy a tattoo we already talked about punks two and a half mil you know today in sales digital real estate i think andrew can cover better than i mean it's like a third of the volume of nft sales is is digital real estate don't sleep on it um ethereum name service ens the dot eth names couple mil um it's not bad you know for a mason industry a few years old um and it's it's grown at a rapid clip i forget it was like 100 million like five months ago um and this is all time sales since the industry was born so it's it's growing quick i don't do math so somebody else is going to have to solve that for me so digital real estate is cool because it's a thing it's an experience it's signal status when you can kind of show off your your collection um so here's a little look into the cachaca collection i recently bought that foundation's a matter series from the fishness tk i woke up one day and got a bid on a still life from that artist for five ether i was like yes i went went to work on lunch doubled all the prices on my pieces and another two of them sold after that which was great because they cleaned out my you know my stash of that artist but uh yeah it's not bad to clock 19 ethan one day you know for um some pieces that you got back in early 2019 i mean super rare is tough to get into these days it's pretty priced out so um yeah so vr real estate's cool the metaverse andrew's going to just crush it on i mean it's this idea though that it's going to be a host of vr worlds that you know you could maybe teleport between um and just have meta experiences and economies that thrive in these worlds and it's the perfect time to really grow this technology and have inclusion and um get people into this space so it's a great time for virtual reality and the you know global you know pandemic that we find ourselves in it's cool to meet friends and get together in in in vr but yeah ultimately it's going to change how we work you know how we collab you can do in-world streaming you know this is this event that i went to you can metaverse can reinvent work play shopping um i went to this like dow records pop-up you know meet up where they spin vinyl they actually put a live set on on a twitch live stream video so this is again very meta it's an experience in world um [Music] and you signed the guest book you know that's what they did instead of a pull-up but yeah there's different ways to engage people in world and and this is just a really cool way of some folks are doing it the whip i haven't been to yet i need to i need to definitely make it out to one of those um i kind of describe this too as you know vr parcels this could one day kind of be like having a website like yeah you of course you're not in the metaverse dude you got to get a parcel you got to get a com no you need a dot you know crypto voxels it's like you you're gonna start to want to have a footprint where people are shopping and if the metaverse is you know where the shopping district is into central land like that might be primo real estate um it might be worth a lot of money one day central land's taking a little while off crypto voxels had steinwald talks about they had really good product market fit early on they shipped an mvp it was buggy early um and they got a super passionate community behind them in this underground crypto art scene so it's super fun and it's thriving um see i've had a 700 visits to my fine pixel art gallery which i curated in crypto voxels uh and what's dope about these pieces is these are all pixel chains which are one of the handful of projects that are 100 on chain so it doesn't rely on any third hosting of the image these are actually cached and hosted but the color you know hexadecimal codes are on the ethereum blockchain and you get the right decoder and you can uncode this image and the fact that i'm so bullish on ethereum is just evident in this because to me these are like early crude like cave paintings on the ethereum blockchain that i'm going to pass down to my grandchildren like these pixel arts mean that much to me i really love pixel art i got to make some of these commission some of these made some great friends over these and kind of give a nod to you know great artists of our day you got salvador dali there lincoln and dolly vision you know um son of man american gothic i did starry night i'm very proud of it but uh yeah it's fun unchained is cool if you can pull it off but it's spendy these days with the gas prices you know anyway so these are virtual products at the end of the day that's kind of the language that i use um and what makes them you know what makes them virtual products is that you can prove you own them you can kind of usually prove you know a little poking around how scarce they are and you can easily sell them because they're interoperable across multiple platforms variable you can sell ens stone it's not as easy to use as openc but that's one example of like a blowing up marketplace um and how you're not locked in that platform and that's cool that's really cool these products subscribe to the erc 721 standard because it's that interoperability you're not locked into one platform so that's pretty powerful so it makes you know for more liquidity yeah i mean they're digital products but they could be so much more um you know how crypto currency is screwing with money we're screwing with property with nfts this essence of stuff is what we're handling toward and building these new primitives for so and if these are going to kind of change our relationship to this stuff and our proximity to that stuff um how that stuff gets used by other parties and how you can almost lease it out to other parties um you know here's a couple examples you can tokenize wine now on openc you can buy a token that represents wine and i kind of think of this as like a cloud seller you're you're basically cellaring the wine um and you're disintermediating your you're not getting your hands dirty in the process and you can redeem it by this trusted party you know at any time so it's not like decentralized but it has to be a trusted fulfillment partner right but if they have a brand they have a cashier they have a war chest you know no they're not going anywhere it's still pretty cool to be able to speculate on a bottle of wine um and profit off that potentially without ever having to take pesky ownership over it so it's interesting realty is tokenizing real estate um it's pretty cool you know seeing people become virtual landlords um it's interesting that you can fractionalize ownership in a property like they're doing buying up places detroit mostly um divvying them up and selling them to qualify it's not open to everybody at this point but yeah eventually we're just going to tokenize all the things i got to quote andrew here again um nfts could eclipse the market cap of cryptos there's a lot more stuff than there is you know just financial instruments all of it added up together i don't think it's going to equal as much as the stuff and the value that that stuff has in the world um so tokenize all the things um when you tokenize all the things there's the internet of things and then there's the internet of this is a bunch of stuff like i i think of this is the catch-all term for um physically tokenized things in the internet of value um so yeah tokens of stuff it's cool these are on chain auto glyphs and crypto punks um the larval labs boys did these the the autoglyphs are on chain um yeah and i i like to just kind of you know talk about you know ft's crypto are in particular you know this is what's cool about crypto art is like not only can digital artists finally make money from their craft and it's pure digital native form um but it's this auction house that never closes you know and it works across auction houses so it's a great way to get exposure from your craft unbound by geographic distances or time um so it's pretty neat and then the fact that 10 royalties typically get divided out to the original artists on a lot of these platforms is disruptive i mean this is the technology these smart contracts enable that could help prevent a generation of starving artists from being starving you know this is awesome um that they're gonna enjoy some of the fruits of their success after it's been realized they don't have to die broke you know before they blow up posthumously right um there's so many artists that uh blow up after they're dead and you know it doesn't have to be like that because it's technology you know it's pretty rad so this is art history in the making um so these are super rares one of ones i sold that cosmic egg on the left for 2500 bucks that's the efficient sdk i talked about what's cool is like i love that piece i right clicked saved that piece i'm that guy but i miss this piece of work i have this copy of it right on this presentation but i know i don't own it and that leaves a hole in my heart um so i will contend to anybody that says right click save screenshot whatever um you're dumb you haven't experienced this you don't know what it's like to own something and then have to part with it um and to know somebody else has that little treasure in their chest and their wallet um so i made good money on it but i missed it seriously um pock you know is a big hitter on super rare he sells pieces for tens of thousands of dollars abacus or whatever it's called um he's done over a quarter million dollars in sales and super where it's insane there's an open bid on an x copy i don't know if you guys know x copies big artists and super rare and known origin um it's kind of the zeitgeist guy i think he really embodies crypto art like he's he's og i'll tell you that robness owns this one and he's not going to part with the he's got like you know 5 000 east on it or something as the price but um yeah i think it's got a 20 ether bit out on it frenetic void here on the right the guy is freaking dolly 2.0 this dude is awesome super surreal stuff love it bought one of his pieces there on the right on maker's place and i bought it with credit card they custodied that piece of art for me they abstract away all of the complexity of crypto or maker's place is positioning themselves for when crypto art blows up um just like nifty gateway does with with drops and you know being able to buy with credit cards so we'll see if those people come um you know right now crypto art is just catering to the nerds i don't know if i mentioned it but like some this statistic from openc that there's only like 15 or 20 000 wallets on open c and if you have two wallets wow there's less than 10 000 people that are crypto art or crypto collectible nerds so this is still uber niche and anybody who's here on this call you're uber early so even if you're priced down in super rare you know keep shopping there's there's other ways to get in on this so i'd encourage you to to get your hands dirty to check it out shop a little bit find something that speaks to you so these are additions not one of ones gaming andrew will talk about gaming but this is what got me hooked in crypto collectibles is that unboxing right there you can see you drag that pack of cards over there and it's just like the dopamine kick is hard to uh deny it's a really great phenomenal um design and hook to kind of tap into your um kind of your gambling you know part of your brain but also um just create a really cool user experience so this is like magic the gathering on blockchain um so it's like hearthstone you know but [Music] you can actually own this stuff trade them i've sold hundreds of dollars worth of these cards it's real axis blowing up they're fun game big passionate community they've got land now too sort of forming their own metaverse um that's been blowing up big they've been up in the rankings of open sea pretty high for a while so um i wouldn't sleep on them they're definitely going to usher in some some more people into the crypto space ens uh like i mentioned i'm super bullish on this paul how am i doing on time i've went way over already haven't i yeah i was just going to interject if you can wrap up in the next like two minutes that'd be cool um but all super cool because my my talk is actually pretty short so so this is actually he's taking my time which is fine okay yeah relatively brief here um yeah enos is sick like i already kind of touched on this is a new name space so um it's a brave new frontier for naming resources i guess is kind of what domains um do in the technical sense and i'm always trying to think about what that means and what's crazy about ens is in the back end and i should have screenshotted this but there's these content records and you can plug in a content record for your avatar or your email or your twitter and that kind of proves you own those properties potentially like you have to still like maybe tweet about it and verify but three boxes doing things like that i want to see my crypto punk show up on all the you know web 3 apps that i'm logged into as the avatar that calls upon that content record you know it's going to be cool to see domain names power those sorts of little easter egg nuggets of the user experience and um yeah they're powerful because they're like email addresses for money it's insane i'm kinshasa you know on twitter well canshasa.crypto you can send any crypto to it just dumps into my wallet um so a lot of wallets are supporting the ability to send to these vanity you know plate you know names for your wallet and that's abstracting away a big long string of text that's confusing and scary um to deal with so as long as you don't make a lot of typos in your life and type the wrong you know term in you're good um and then minting sub domains is dope you can actually create like usernames with subdomains and it routes to your wallet if you do all the fancy footwork for it there's not a lot of people doing it yet um but i'm really bullish on ens i've spent too much money on ens i own all the domains um i have some really cool ones i'm bullish so i bought bullish i bought bull run collectible wearable you know you name it um but like i said i also gift them if anybody wants a dope ass name you're working on a cool project let me know and i'll um try and brand something up for you and hook you up uh i'd like to do an airdrop to someone in here who's doing something or wants you know to have one of these you're more than welcome um yeah and then just wrapping up what's the future of nfts you know we kind of talk about stuff that you want what about stuff you don't want huh what about spam you know what about these advertisements in your wallet this dude just sent me one of these the other day hey i love your crypto punk i just bit an ether on it and a bunch of people bit a bunch of people gave him like super rare crypto punks man that would have had like a ten floor you know ten eighth floor on them um and yeah this showed up as a collectible he meant it on wearable to kind of spam me into maybe accepting that bib so this is unsolicited bulk tokens um so yeah there's going to be promos there's going to be offers there's going to be shillers wall advertising i'm kind of bullish on like nfts as loyalty points you know maybe on xdad that's a little bit more feasible um but you know i call this one coffee stamps this is like you know a marriage between iot provenance supply chain custody quality assurance improvement with sensors i know how hot or humid that coffee bean was in transit i know the temperature was roasted i know the farmer's middle name you know the coffee cooperative who grew this bean and i double tap on this coffee stamp and i can see all that stat and i can see when i collect 12 coffee stamps i can redeem it for some kind of reward or i could pool it with other people in the community for epic awards that unlock other experiences or maybe you can forward them somehow to the farmer kind of pay it forward so smart loyalty programs are going to be dope um can't wait yeah and nfc should get social i think commenting is kind of an underrated thing um i'm just going to wrap this up maker's place does that it's cool we're coming out of the trough of disillusionment i think people are super stoked on on nfts you know it's finally getting to stay in the sun so um we're seeing these projects start to really come to fruition um yeah so that's my stick um i do uh have a startup crowd founder it's a startup studio um we're currently working on a project called rapogram which is a machine learning powered beat maker um top mentor so it's just mashing technologies together again because why not um i think this technology is way cooler when it converges with something else virtual reality or whatever so yeah have fun smash things together and um yeah let's keep nfts weird thanks guys thanks so much garrett that was great all right um next up we're gonna hear from andrew steinwald and then please stick around for the end we're gonna have a quick q a session um so yeah if you have any questions for garrett i'm sure many of you do that was a great presentation but uh let's hold them until the end about 15-20 minutes from now um so cool uh take it away andrew so let me share my screen okay just use my millions of tabs can everyone's judgment there go actually okey-dokey all right cool so uh yeah kinchasa it's it's i know you could as conchasta not garrett so it's weird to call you garrett but uh you did an incredible job so you know hats off to you because it's the nft space is so large and diverse and broad that you really you really nailed it so congrats on that and um my talk was originally going to be why i'm excited about nfts and i decided to kind of bring it down to what drives value to certain entities i thought there was a more concise thing that i could focus on and um just to briefly go into my background i got involved in bitcoin in 2013. i sold all my bitcoin 2014 unfortunately um but i was still very interested in the technology i uh was obsessed with ripple in 2014 believe it or not let me say that um and then uh launched a crypto fund in july of 2017 and then still operational today and i launched a nft focused fund uh in september of 2019 so about a year ago that's kind of where i'm at today so um what are the value drivers in nfts so first of all really really simple what is an nft it's just simply a unique digital asset so you know uh we have fungible assets like money and bitcoin and ether so my ether is the same as your ether if i send you one you send me one there's no difference of oh no no like send that back that was mine like it doesn't matter and then we have non-fungible assets which are just unique digital assets so for example the cryptokitty on the left maybe that was minted as the first scripted kitty and maybe the one on the right is the second crypt of kitty so in theory you know the first crypt of kitty is very very valuable right perhaps you know five times more valuable than the second crypt of kitty and this is all kind of speculation i have no idea but i'm just saying that uh you know pointing that out because it's all about unique digital assets versus fungible assets all right so i try to kind of bucket nfts into rough categories so i can kind of fit them in my brain because there's just so much going on so i like to call i like to say that they're collectibles game assets virtual land crypto art and other and collectibles i kind of classify them as assets with little to no utility and we can think of them like baseball cards or something like that you can't really they're not like pokemon cards you can't battle them or anything they're mainly for collecting and kind of you know enjoying with your community and friends and these assets that are in the nft space that are collectibles you know you can think of them like cryptokitties and crypto punks and stuff like that because yeah cryptokitties you can breed them but you can't like battle them and and can't battle them natively and you know kind of do all these other things with them game assets i categorize as assets with high levels of utility within their environment or universe so you can think of these like pokemon if you have a pokemon he has a certain you know attack defense etc and um you know you can really use it and there's certain pokemon that are stronger than others and so you can apply that to the nft space we have axia infinity they're like pokemon they have certain attack defense etc within their universe and so uh the third one is virtual land and these are really this is my my favorite category uh because they're essentially user-owned social e-commerce gaming and creative platforms all rolled into one and they really give users unlimited optionality on what they want to do with their land and um i don't have a really good analogy for uh what this is in terms of like you know the traditional world but yeah i think virtual lane is going to play a massive role in nfts and also the wider metaverse which is what i think this all encapsulates and then fourth we have crypto art which is which is art that has been tokenized and put on a blockchain and um i'll go you know deeper into that in the later that's why i think that's so powerful but um yeah that's category number four and then category number five is other this is you know contrasted upon domain names domain names is w in there you have a property you have uh physical goods with nft certificates there's a whole insurance there's like a whole host of other other uh categories that fit into the other but right now they're pretty small but i do think that in the near future they're gonna have to be their own separate categories and it's going to be expanding crazy all right so what is driving value to each one of these categories so i think it really comes down to um you know what you're looking at so for collectibles it's all about the narrative and the story around the asset for game assets it's all about the assets utility within their universe um and i'm gonna dive deeper into all these and explain more about it like my reasoning why but i'm just gonna give a brief overview now virtual land it's all it's very similar to the physical world where it's real the value is really derived from the location parameters and the content that sits upon that land and for art or sorry crypto art the value is really based off of the artist's reputation and then for other obviously it's variable because there's so many different categories all right collectibles uh this is a this is a baseball card um it sold for 3.

93 million dollars which is just incredible to to think that you know a piece of cardboard can sell for that much uh which is funny because we're all involved in crypto and people probably say the same thing about us but um okay what is the narrative around this card so this player this baseball player his name is mike trout i had no idea who that is because i don't really watch sports but i googled that he's some really really good player okay um he's really good everyone all baseball fans agree he's very good and uh yeah he's top guy right and then this actual card the physical card was sent to some rating agency or company or something like that and they graded the quality of this card at 9.5 out of 10 right and what's really important is that there is some third party whose whole job it is is to kind of grade this stuff so it it builds around the narrative that okay this stuff is valuable because there's this whole company whose sole job it is is to rate these cards right so you're feeling confident okay cool you know i got a 9.5 is pretty good right um analogy mentioned that the community there's a ton of baseball fans out there they probably know who mike trout is and they all agree he's very good so that's that's building on the narrative rarity um the narrative around rarity is that it's a one-of-one piece so obviously you cannot get rarer in in the universe than uh something that's one of one obviously and um what's really important is past sales history so this card previously sold for four hundred thousand dollars right so it didn't go from like the guy opened up the the pack or however they're sold but open up a pack and then he sell it for 3.9 uh 3.93 million it probably you know it worked its way up i don't know what it sold before 400 000 but i'm sure it like you know it was a thousand ten thousand blah blah blah and kept kind of building and what we're gonna see throughout the this uh this you know how how you val what are the value drivers behind nfts it's really you know community rarity and previous sales history comes up a lot so let's go on the next one nfc collectibles so it's you know same thing the value for nft collectibles is the narrative and the narrative around this little monkey is that uh his his name is uh cryptopunk2386 okay and as kinshasa mentioned cryptopunks were the first nfts on ethereum so that's a great narrative right so right away you're like oh oh very cool and there's only ten thousand of crypt of these crypto punks so that's also really really cool because you're saying oh wow there's only ten thousand you know very limited whatever so the community around crypto punks knows okay crypto punks are really cool plus monkey crypto punks are even cooler because they're so rare out of all crypto out of all 10 000 crypto punks there's only 24 monkeys so you know right away okay it's you know very rare asset and there's a previous sales history from this card of 5 900 so it didn't go from you know one dollar to 15 000 because that's what it last sold for but it went from you know maybe 20 bucks and then 50 bucks whatever right so the last time it sold which was um i actually checked i think it was like this summer i think it was i want to see july but sold for 15 000 which is incredible because this is a purely digital collectible all right game assets so uh game assets the the uh the um value is derived from the assets utility within its universe so we're looking at here is world of warcraft and the sword in his hand is called ashbringer and that is the most powerful sword in world of warcraft okay so if it's the most powerful that means it has very very very high utility because it's the strongest right you can kill more monsters and you can you know kill more enemies and whatever right it's very very high on the scale of utility within that universe and if there were a marketplace for world of warcraft items then that this sword would go for you know thousands if not hundreds of thousands and possibly millions of dollars depending on the rarity of it but if you look at the uh depending on the rarity the previous sales history all these kind of factors but um but we we all know that the community behind world of warcraft is massive way bigger than what nfts are currently today all right so nft game assets again same thing the the values derived from the assets utility so this little guy this beautiful guy his name is hanson bob he is a axi uh character and axes can be used to battle and when you battle you're able to earn this erc20 token called small love potions and these small of potions you can either sell them for for ethereum you know money or you can actually use them to breed more axes so um you know if you have the strongest axi you're able to win more battles you're able to earn more slp you know money or you're able to print more axes or breed more axes right so there's really really high levels of utility with this little guy and he sold five days ago for 82 000 which i just think is is incredible and really exciting and in terms of rarity um he is a i believe he's a triple mystic axi and triple mystic means i think that there's i think there's there's four quad mystics which are like the or maybe three quad mystics which are the rarest triple mystic is the second tier right below that and you know he's pr i think there's only like 20 triple mystics so extremely extremely rare within the you know axi uh universe all right lands so it's funny that virtual land and land is is basically the same but it's the value behind land is its location the parameters the height with length and then the content and so this building uh it's a building in manhattan very you know beautiful structure right manhattan's an awesome place you're in the middle of the hustle and bustle right great location the parameters you can see it's a um it's a regular size a lot like medium-sized lot i'd say but the it's extremely tall and so you know really really high uh tall height limit and uh the contents what is actually on this pot of land um instead of just kind of a smaller you know 20 unit building it's like this massive beautiful skyscraper right so it's all those factors make it a very very valuable valuable property all right nft virtually this is a terrible picture but um nft virtual lands is the same thing it's location parameters and content and what we see here is uh two cache road and crypto voxels which is a virtual world and the location is an area or neighborhood called frankfurt which is like the financial center within this you know virtual world and uh it has the tallest i think it was the second or third tallest height limit of of the entire virtual world of crypto voxels was was this plot of land to to uh cache road and um so you know when you're looking at the uh at the location it's great it's in like the downtown area the parameters is extremely high extremely high uh height limit which is awesome and then the content it's again it's not a good picture because it's supposed to be taller like way taller but there's all these gifs it just didn't load on my computer all these gifs are circling around this tower and it's really cool because the gifts are moving and it's kind of cool to watch right and so this piece of land virtual land sold for fifty thousand dollars uh i believe i believe it was uh let's say it was like earlier this year 2020.

but yeah so for fifty thousand dollars it was a part of a larger bundle which was so the total amount was a hundred and ten thousand but this particular tower part of it sold for fifty thousand art so this you know everything i'm saying is maybe controversial this is kind of my opinion but okay art the value behind art is derived from the artist's reputation right so this beautiful piece made by banksy let's pretend that he never made it let's pretend that i actually made it i was the first one to create it so you know i'm unknown i don't make art but i put it you know i make this beautiful piece and i put it for sale and maybe you know no one knows who i am i have no reputation in the arts our world i've never made any art some people are gonna say okay you know i'll buy for 20 bucks right but banksy with his amazing reputation with his incredible brand he's able to sell the same exact piece for five million right um and it didn't actually sell for five million i have no idea what it's all for i'm just kind of you know throwing out there because this stuff goes for about between like 10 million and like 1 million all right crypto art you know i think it's kind of the same the value behind the art is derived from the artist's reputation so this piece right here we have the art the crypto artist josie and you know i'm looking at uh different factors and i'm looking at her brand she has almost 9 000 twitter twitter followers she has great engagement so i'm looking you know are those followers actually engaged um she has a live stream that she does called behind the art and so she's you know really building up a brand like that and interviewing people and kind of getting really involved with the community and in terms of her her selling process or art or you know selling offer nfts she purposely sells below market value for her nfts which is great because it allows people to if they want to to flip for profit right and that's really really i think that's a genius move and what she does is instead of making one of ones she'll often often make you know additions of 21 and i think that that's really great because if you're selling below market value plus you're selling multiple additions you're actually able to build a larger community so that just really helps your brand and if people in your in your community are making money they're going to be more bullish on your brand and on your reputation as an artist and so this piece right here nft sold for 12 500 which is very impressive um yeah we have the other other category which you know i haven't really dived into uh you know each one of these but domain names physical goods insurance property sales contracts etc um you know in the future uh these will be massive massive markets and nfcs in general are just going to expand like crazy but um and right now i don't know the value drivers between uh you know these specific assets but you know in the future i'll make an updated uh updated document that'll that'll go into each the value drivers for each of these because i think that really nft markets are so diverse and there's so many different reasons that these things are crew value that uh all these things are gonna have to be analyzed but um it's very very exciting and uh that is my talk um if you guys want want to learn more about nfts i have a newsletter called zima red and i have a podcast called zima red so um go check it out there if you want follow me on twitter so thanks so much awesome thanks andrew yeah very cool um okay in terms of what's next we are gonna have a kind of hybrid little panel q a session for the next few minutes and um so if you have any questions uh we'll ask a few spencer and i uh to kick things off but then we'll open it up a little bit more um and thanks again andrew and garrett contrassa both very very interesting presentations um spencer do you want to kick kick it off with a question or i have one lined up if uh yeah i gotta i gotta select one so go ahead first okay um rewinding back to 2017 i remember part of what was so exciting to me about cryptokitties was the potential for interoperability um so like you know you heard of projects like putting hats on the cats or like allowing game-like experiences that you could only have if you had one of the cryptokitties i think um kinshasa hinted at a like a great uh early example of interoperability that art is being viewed quite a bit in crypto voxels galleries but like how do you see the next couple years playing out like what are what are other natural interop options that are that we might expect coming soon andrew do you want to weigh in on that one sure yeah so i there's really no incentive for nft projects to allow interoperability um i mean they can but it's a lot of work on their at their end and it doesn't give them money so like why would i i can but why would i um the only people that it does make sense for are virtual worlds because virtual worlds are very you know you need to have content in a virtual world for it to be exciting and entertaining and so um they have a big incentive to allow you know crypto art and other uh nfts to be used in world but other than that i just don't see the incentives line up i was you know i was kind of jamming on this idea the other day if someone created some sort of um i don't know like dow or i don't really know how it would look but some website where people could go and say hey i have these swords and you have these pokemon let's kind of you know um i i want this to be interoperable in some worlds and i want my pokemon to be interoperable in some world so let's kind of do some sort of exchange or some sort of central point where people can talk to each other and and uh share ideas about interoperability and maybe maybe do some interoperability of different assets because right now it's just like you have to go individually individually talk to a team you have to talk to the founder and say hey do you guys want to do this blah blah blah they're like yeah sure it's going to kind of take us time there's no really incentive so we just need to figure out the incentive structure to make it to make it work yeah i think uh i think that's true you know you don't have much of a business model if you're just kind of letting it go out of your ecosystem but i do see kind of some things like smashing together and kind of people getting creative with their assets um one thing i was doing uh earlier this year i redrew my crypto punk and pixel resolution so i had it and i could scale it up really easy and keep the resolution good in photoshop with the nearest neighbor setting on right and um i made mine animate and i made it talk um so i have a talking crypto punk and what i did was then i animated what at the time was the um crypto punk and i thought man this would be fun to just do like a youtube interview with that crypto punk and just create content and maybe somehow monetize that content the only way to be on the show is to own a crypto punk um and so that could kind of be one way to like create new media around you know this idea that you have to own that nft um so like it's just a homegrown bootstrap to like you know podcast idea but um as far as like professional grade like nfts the way the the companies are doing that you know i think you're gonna start to see some overlap like it would be good to see um official partnerships between some of these projects you know to kind of bake that into the ground level you know what if there is some way that it is symbiotic um and could value you know if there's there's some draw from the gamers world into this other space um you're starting to see some interesting things happen with d5 and nfts obviously you know james on the call here just hit me to pool together people are sending nfts to pool together pools and those are in the prize pool they're not like advertising it right now because they don't have that in the ui yet i guess but they've been posting that on twitter people threw an axi into the pool via that that contract address and so um yeah do fine nfts are gonna lead the way but yeah it would be cool to see nfts play nicer together um i think there has to be a grander plan otherwise like danger said there's no incentive cool very interesting so this might be a little bit of a weird question but um both of you to some extent talked about the relationship between the kind of explicit utility that an nft has and its and its value um i guess my question is or really more of an ask for you guys to talk a little bit more about that in particular about the potential for that relationship to maybe in some consensus be inverse so i guess the weird question is are there any circumstances where um the fact that an nft might have some like explicit utility might make it less valuable overall so does it have some trait that makes it worth less or the fact that you can use it for something that takes it out of collectible status for example doesn't potentially change how people think about it or how they value it i think you'll start to see like nfts as consumables too um so like once you have d5 staked nfts we'll start to see you know i had this i was jamming with some of the guys at the the untitled hackathon the untitled nft hackathon right and um there's this gentleman over at um ox i think we were talking about defy staked nfts and what if you had minted um some seashells that happened to have aveda and you know an adai an interest-bearing stable coin um you only meant you know maybe you take the crypto punks playbook and you meant ten thousand of them but you stake ten die each you got pony up a lot of money to make those maybe doing batches or something whatever if people burn those shells to you know release the intrinsic dye that appreciates or maybe stops appreciating once you've burned it um it reduces the supply of that and you're able to see more perceived value of the shells that remain so they could be you know higher perceived value but you've destroyed those those other ones to just claim the you know the money inside um but i don't think i'm answering questions you're talking about like a trait i mean i'm thinking of like another instance yeah that's not gonna answer your question somebody sent me an nft this card of shame from bit riley which was like a a wash trading um wearable token that she created to like shame people so you send it to people who are you're accusing of watching um but it was sent to me as a joke but um yeah so that has like a perception of negativity with it it's still in my wallet um but yeah i didn't answer your question andrew what do you think so so the question is uh is there an instance where an nfc has utility and it's worth less because of that utility yeah yeah so i mean it really depends on what the utility is i can see that um you know i i think if you have some you know world of warcraft you have like very common items so if it's some like really simple sword that doesn't that's not that strong but still has a lot of utility you still it's still sword i can see it possibly you know it'd be worth less than something with a very powerful sword right um so in that instance i could see it being worth less but i don't see added utility as a as a negative um i see it as just i i think it would be uh if anything neutral just because the sword has utility doesn't make it worth less um in theory it should be worth more depending on that utility but yeah i don't know i'm trying to think of a scenario where it would be worth actually less um do you have something in mind when you said when you said that because now i'm kind of thinking how would that be no nothing in particular just trying to push on on some assumptions that we all have about that utility being worth more but i i sort of see collectibles sort of i guess the way you describe them andrew they don't have explicitly do not have utility and so i'm wondering if it's like if it's possible for something that would otherwise be a collectible but has utility and therefore is no longer in that mental category for people if that might change the way they value them or think about them interesting okay so so in my brain i if you can make an nft and you reach collectible status that means that you've made it that means that you are just like crushing it because it's really hard to because collectible is all about narrative so if you can kind of you know level up and become something that people consider a collectible item that's awesome so for example uh actually infinity those are the pokemon-like creatures they have attack defense blah blah within action infinity there are collectible assets so origin axes which are like the first 4088 axes that were minted uh those are that is the collectible universe within the axi world right and there's like millions and millions of axes like characters out there but those 4088 those are the collectibles and within those 4088 you have mystics so mystic one mystic two mystic three missing four right so even like within that um collectible universe you have these even higher uh even more cooler collectibles right so not only are they um assets with great utility but they're also a collectible so like that is that is like the pinnacle of success in terms of uh what you would like to achieve an asset with utility plus collectible but in my mind a collectible is what you if you can reach that status you are you're golden yeah and i keep reaching for an instance where you would have some negative characteristic and i i'm trying to reach and i'm like oh there aren't really like ghettos and cryptobox also but like if you were in some sort of virtual ghetto um that would kind of be a negative trait but it's hard to contrive that and why would you you'd want to have a nice atmosphere i would imagine maybe around halloween it would be seems you know spooky and stuff but that's not a negative in that context you know i was just thinking too for a second like i got that wash of shame that card of shame wash trading card from dave reilly and i was thinking like in a in a game where you know like you said world of warcraft you can have a sword you know you would think in a blockchain based game you would just let off chain game mechanics manage negative repercussions but in theory you could have an nft that just is a time delay like decay of when it's burned and it gets spammed into your wallet and that's a disease or that's a spell that then has other impacts on some other like it disables some of your other swords or something um so there could be some way to have a negative nft potentially in that context but you would think it would be handled off chain anyway but i don't know yeah i i think you bring a really good point but but also i want to caveat by saying that um even the assets with utility that involves narrative i think so much about nfts involves narrative and i think so much about you know asset valuation in general where you're talking about stocks or bonds or crypto is about narrative right um so i think utility helps but at the end of the day people have to say okay uh this this sword is so good within this game um which is which is the high utility but also they have to say this is a great game it's a good community it's a whole it's a whole kind of thing that you're you're entering it's not just this okay it has utility therefore value yeah very interesting i know i'm mostly asking the questions but quick hot take on that i i think um it's possible that you could have a positive trait that's not sufficiently positive so you might accidentally like anchor people in a way that breaks the price discovery process of people flipping it with secondary sales so like if it only has like a little bit of utility in the game people's imagination can't run wild for other narratives they might have like anchored on uh i don't know yeah kind of a half-baked thought but um unless do you know the response you're totally on point there it's so much of it is story and narrative and and you know um even like if you see something someone bidding and then they you know they've been at 10 ether but then they cancel their bin they put to 83 right away you're thinking okay why is he doing that what's going on you know like am i am i being crazy like is this not worth them you know so there's it's so much is about psychology and narrative so you're right yeah yeah and the killer job with the criteria that you laid out to help value these different types of nfps andrew that was really helpful to get your arms wrapped around the how something is valued and you know gives more concrete language to understand this subjective animal that we're grappling with here one other question oh guys for your presentation i just had a quick question i was wondering um what your guys's thoughts are on big brands that have their eyes on the space like nike and how they're trying to patent um some of the technology that's already been built out by like uh cryptokitties just curious if you have like any thoughts on that yeah andrew i i don't know i i just know there's an ethos in the space of open source and so when anybody throws around patents it just kind of runs counter to that and you'll have big deep pockets so they could be defending those technologies that might not actually be novel you know this has probably been done and you're just getting a patent because the usppo doesn't know what they're doing um i don't know i i'm just a little bit negative on all sorts of big brands coming in and then just trying to create a moat when we should be creating an ecosystem that is composable and built on top of each other really cool stuff as a result um but yeah i mean at the same token it's interesting that big brands are are weighing in and trying to do i mean i saw nike tried to create like an nfc chip you know that you could scan of a sneaker i think and you can sense it and then sort of validate how authentic it is or something like that so they're creating some digital clone with your shoes um but yeah it'll be it'll be cool to see some of those projects come to fruition and break you know into the mainstream a little bit but uh yeah i have reservations of patenting and stuff yeah so i don't know anything about the patenting and nike doing that um you know i i agree with kinshasa i think that you know people should not do that but you know it's really their primitive um i i i am okay with brands coming to the space and worrying about ip so if i'm making nike uh you know style shoes um it is okay in my mind for nike to contact me say hey don't do that right that's okay but if they're kind of patenting technology um and you know saying hey we're gonna like patent your erc721 or something like that like that's not okay right um but so so that's kind of the patent kind of thing um in terms of big brands entering the space uh we're gonna see a lot of mainstream brands into this space and that is a is a tactic for a lot of groups that i'm talking to is they reach out to traditional companies that have big big brands large ip they say hey we'll tokenize your stuff and we'll put on the blockchain we'll sell it as these digital goods and um and we're seeing a lot of that but what we don't see is solid follow-through by the companies that are that are bringing these brands into into the nft space we're kind of seeing um hey you know big brand everyone knows it right so maybe the initial hype everyone will get excited people will buy it but then the follow through is pretty miserable because the company issuing kind of moved on to the next ip right so they're not really they're not building an ecosystem they're not building the community they're not reaching the collectible status that they might hold in the physical realm right and so so you know i i i'm not as bullish i'm more bullish on native you know people native people to the uh nft space building their own brands and building their own stuff within the space and growing they're growing that versus like nike coming in and introducing like nft uh nike styled and a tease right that's kind of separate thing yeah right sorry i have a quick question um two quick things uh andrew great interview with uh pranksy and um question for um let's see i guess for the both of you um would you choose or like for the metaverse cryptovoxels or decentraland [Music] andrew's bullish not encrypted boxes i'll speak on your behalf i don't know decentralize cool they've got different geometry you know it's like triangles and stuff instead of all squares so you've got the the cypherpunk vibe of the underground crypto art scene and cryptovoxels and it's got you know a thriving community and that's kind of everything um and sometimes i get the sense that areas of decentralized feel like ghost towns but i'm still bullish on both projects um i still hold them yes and i wish i was more into other projects too because i'm i think that these are you know reddits and facebooks and googles of the future these are like big companies you know they're all building something maybe special and have their own unique sauce um so yes omnium still looks cheap at two ether for some of these things now that i see like the museum of crypto art putting these really beautiful installations in um so yeah now that's omnium too by the way might go is it mikko or michael sorry mike oh yeah yeah michael insomnium is becoming web-based too and that's one measure you can make in making your choices you know not only looking at property with certain parameters locations and stuff but is it web-based is the full platform easy frictionless to enter do you need a vr client to get in like samia you used to apparently need a vr client they're moving toward web-based access i think that's good sandbox is another big one that's up and coming and that's the vr client then you gotta download if i'm not mistaken so i still think that the products that they're shipping has a lot of potential because they have like a voxel editor game maker where you can create characters actually like rig them and make a move and they've got a lot of tooling to make cool user generated content so they all kind of have their own angles um essential land just you know did not subscribe to the minimum viable product you know ship fast philosophy and because of that cryptovoxel has kind of got first mover advantage so i think that that's just kind of one wrinkle in it too in the grander scheme of things cool yes so i want to caveat i want to say that this is not financial advice i probably should say that earlier this is my personal opinion um i'm a fan of all of the four major blockchain based virtual worlds i think that blockchain-based virtual worlds that's contrasta touch upon are like literally you know these the future platforms that we're going to be using you know they're part e-commerce part gaming part they're so they're so exciting plus they're user-owned right so imagine you're using facebook and you get facebook shares you know or you're upside in facebook so facebook does well you actually can sell your profile and earn some money right um that paradigm if user ownership is uh prevalent throughout the entity space but especially so in blockchain's virtual worlds and um i really see them as the very very first inklings or you know iterations of the metaverse which is like the ready player one fantasy right and i'm talking this is gonna be 50 years right it's gonna be very long time but but i i really do i'm so excited about all of them and i i want them all to succeed um yeah there's certain ones that i'm more excited about others uh but but it's it's small you know i i'm i want i want to be involved in everyone you know so um i i say that they're all they're all doing great yeah into central land i i'm not trying to poop with them they're doing some cool stuff to really support the community and create awesome builds in this world and i i'm a big fan of pixel art as i showed well they helped pixel chain build out an in-world pixel art creator an actual editor and then you could mint it to the blockchain so they're kind of creating pretty meta experiences within their world that i think are going to attract people too so it's cool it's cool seeing what they're all doing and the angle they're coming at with it you know sounding has a very realism uh cryptovoxels traditionally has this minecraft feel but since they came out with this light banking i became very bullish on crypto voxels again i instantly saw that tweet and regretted the hell out of selling my parcels i sold my parcels for like three and a half eight and one of them was in the music district michael so you know shame on me for not doing my scouting of my location it got flipped for nine within like six weeks but uh yeah so financial advice um aside yeah i i would invest yeah it's vr real estate i'll give financial advice in the next thing apparently we shouldn't be taking financial advice from you based on that last example well yeah it's just total like telling you which property to buy i'm just saying that's a freaking sandbox um that you should see how quick they sell out i just recently flipped mine and did pretty well but i really want to create content in the world too so i think there's value in just using these worlds not just you know yeah if anyone else has any questions feel free to just shout them out or if you're feeling shy post them in the chat and we can ask them and then i think um within the next five to ten minutes we'll look to wrap up and move to the just the informal not recorded section yeah this is chris baker i just wanted to comment about the the trout card uh that's that card is a one-of-a-kind card they only made one of it which is and so that's often what what the factors you usually end up the player who's generally a superstar very scarce uh you know very scarce card and that's often and of course the card has to be in really great condition i mean if somebody drives a truck over that card it's going to lose value or somebody you know folds it up and shoots bb guns at it you know it's going to lose value but yeah that's those are some of the factors that somebody used to collect a lot of cards in the past so although a lot of a lot of the really expensive ones are generally old so that was a shocker that it's only from 2009 so you know yeah that surprised me i thought honest wagner was like the biggest selling card but this is a recent card that's old yeah yeah yeah i saw that it passed the wagner and you know i saw you know i saw a few others i didn't i i didn't realize there was a lebron james basketball card out there that's really expensive too and there's the and you know uh yeah there's a quite a few there's the hoeness wagner which is now over 100 years old and that was because he had the card pulled i mean there might have been 50 or 200 of those i mean a lot of times you know standard baseball cards you might have hundreds of thousands or even millions of them out there generally but you get the more scarce ones that's you know they're they're you know it reminds me chris you brought up the baseball card and it struck me you know that andrew brought up uh the beckett you know um book yeah and uh what do they call that the book it's usually called uh just the beckett right you just call it it's it's beckett price guide everybody just calls it the beckett book yeah it comes out once a month but it's generally the the guide that people use to buy and sell you know it's a and he comes out and they usually come out with a big fat book once a year that has everything listed yeah and i because it struck me you know uh that they have this proof of authority sort of thing where they're able to they use their sole job is to value these cards and the energies really benefit a lot from having um evaluation organization that's not centralized and figuring out how to create some sort of adversarial dial that allows people to like have their opinions but weight them on a certain piece um to try and ascribe like a legitimate value i mean the market's going to naturally try and discover its own price and maybe that's um good for the artist more but for the collector who's trying to get a reasonable value you want to beck it you want someone to look to um and so it would be cool to have you know a crypto beckett or you know yeah boo book satoshi blue book yeah and yeah and and you know and beck it's been around since at least the 80s i mean grading services kind of came in the 90s because you need different uh you know you need you know if you're selling cards through the mail and stuff and you're not seeing what you buy you want somebody to say yeah this is a you know this is grade 9 or grade 10 you know that kind of thing because you can end up with a lot of a lot of things going on a lot of people you know because everybody tends to want to exaggerate the grades of their cards they you know they think their cards are in better shape than they are it's a and that and that's a huge factor though but you know yeah but beckett's yeah of course now beckett's went on the web i was you know it's a the internet certainly changed things because it made it easier to get all that information you used to have to go buy the beckett book once a month and yeah so no no yeah chris thanks so much for for filling me in on that because i i literally was googling this stuff and i was like i didn't even know that becca you know this grading service existed i didn't know about michael trout i didn't know about baseball cards so it's really cool to meet you and hear that hear your stories about this because it sounds like you're definitely the expert i i used to do it a lot although i i really lost interest in the mid 90s and i hardly i mean i hardly pay attention to base sports at all anymore it's funny especially during the events of 2020 it just didn't seem like it was that important you know now you're in nfcs yeah everything's well i'm getting i'm getting well i'm getting into crypto i'd like to i've been doing system administration and other work and i really want to go more work into crypto because crypto unfortunately crypto crypto is the only place where there are any good guys left i mean facebook google microsoft they've all they've all they've all become you know the evil empires i was gonna say because there's plenty of shadiness in crypto too there's there's some bad yeah there's always there's always shady characters but there's shady characters everywhere people trying you know i mean you know 99 of the of the of the you know the coins out there are just scams but there are people out there who really want to change the world you know i really you know sometimes i realize the real scam is just it's all the damn fees jesus yeah i think i think we're kind of naturally segueing into the the chat part at the end but uh before we stop like the official meetup segment anyone have any last minute questions otherwise we can i have a question um yeah so it was great thank you for your presentations this is like a great deep dive into the nft world i really appreciated it um i have a like a kind of a physical world kind of question um you guys mentioned the nike nft and i quickly read about it and look it like it was more of a crypto kitties kind of thing rather than like a physical world collectible you know what i mean like the sneakerheads they'll stand in line in la for like hours to buy a sneaker and then flip it for a couple grand and you know have a lot of friends in the apparel industry too and i was living in hong kong so you never know what you're buying whether it's real or not um and i was wondering is are there any nft projects that kind of solve this authentication kind of problem especially in the secondary market um not just for for like clothing but you know i guess for anything so any sort of physical use case for authentication i'm just curious and maybe i can forward the word on to some of my friends who have businesses i always hear rumblings of it but i haven't seen any really good things to point to i mean i i thought there was you know louis vuitton was gonna figure out how to use blockchain to solve for the counterfeit handbags but it's tricky you know people are good at faking stuff um so i don't know how you solve for that there's you know other technology too besides blockchain i was at a conference uh chicago blockchain conference actually last year i met josie there was super cool seeing her art and her ar sort of way in which you can advance it but i met this guy who uses atomic level dots these quantum dots and they use that to authenticate higher dollar value things um so they're using like a physical like um impossible to prove you know a million dots per inch sort of printed watermark on like art and stuff i would be like a qr like a nano qr code or something like that there's got to be some way to contrive a solution with an nfc chip and a qr code and then multiply another social signal that like tells you okay this is probably legit i don't know i just wish i could solve that but yeah tessa is that um andrew do you do you know of any projects i mean i think a lot of peop that's like the holy grail when people are like how do we use nfts to make sure that these physical goods are real but right when you go in the realm of physical there's always there's like an arm arms race between the fakers and the the real people right so um you know you mentioned uh quantum dots like i've never heard of that that's crazy but i'm sure that and that's probably full proof right now but maybe in 10 years from now there's gonna be people that have like these machines that fake the quantum dot thing or whatever and for qr codes and also nfc chips um because i've spoken to a lot of people about that it's okay well we'll put the qr code we'll put the nfc chip in this handbag and that's great up until the people you know figure out how to copy the qr code or remove the nfc chip and put it in the fake good so it's really tough to use nfts as certificates for for physical goods to prove that it's the real real deal but um multi-sig so like the person who bought it and then you have like a third-party authenticator and then the third like the physical chip or something and and then if everything lines up then it's some sort of magical unlocking of the blockchain yeah i think if you if you have a third-party service that's verifying okay this is actually the exact qr code or exact nfc nfc chip and it was not removed from this bag the whole time then i think that's possible but then you're kind of running into the same issues that we have today of they're the third party authentication services that that we have like you know for example um i think uh what is that sneaker place online stockx i think people like send their their shoes in the stockx they verify that's real and then it gets sent out so i mean that is a pain that it's a big pain but i think overall it works pretty well so i think we're going to have some service like that yeah that's what they do with the real real like all the girls that like want to resell their lvs and whatever their hermes is they send it to the real real and it's authenticated by them which gets them a higher premium price so cool yeah so i can see that i can see blockchain being like a marketing tool it'd be like oh it's blockchain so we know 100 is real but in actuality uh it's still you're still dealing with like a physical good so nfc chip qr codes made that which and i i guess could be duplicated or removed and put on put on fake good yeah you know the the service that's doing that for you the third party then you're more you're more secure in your and you're you're feeling more confident that it's actually real yeah yeah and that's the thing is uh just about anything can be gained that's economical to gain except watching well that's the thing it's not economical the game you can't really muster up that many servers to launch a 51 attack and so like the thing about doing this for goods is if you were to bake that into a single good and that cost of making it cost prohibitive to fake like i i don't even know the economics of how that would even work but you'd have to make it so hard to fake that it just doesn't it doesn't justify the cost of this these would only be very very high on luxury goods which you know louis vuitton and the like are obviously on goods and you know i know kanye west and the yeezys you know he's into bitcoin now i guess so did you see his joe rogan podcast uh that was tough stuff i heard about it is it worth watching or is it a show what's the kind of both i i guess i mean it's it's if you have some hours to kill it's not bad i i listen to everything on jorgen and like 1.5 speed just to get through a little bit faster i think that's the way to do it um yeah it's interesting yes it's very circular logic a lot of things yeah but going back to your point though like i think we need to sometimes reshift the framing of blockchain away from like authentication and absolute verifiable truth in the context of nfts and stuff is like the value is like a digital clone that you can put in virtual reality or the value is this is like a warranty that follows around that good that can then be burned or redeemed nfts can have other utility beyond just like a truth machine you know it's not that like bulletproof you know holy grail that we think it is it's not there yet and blockchain may be one way to triangulate it one day but uh yeah yeah so i think there's other use cases in the meanwhile we've got to just reframe that value of nfts away from pure authentication to like a value add of some kind okay well thanks for uh for sharing your opinions appreciate it yeah yeah this was a great conversation i think now is kind of a natural stopping point for the end of the official meetup but let's just keep chatting as soon as i stop the zoom recording but to wrap things up thanks spencer for helping to organize this thanks so much to andrew and kinshasa for their talk super interesting and yeah thanks for anyone watching on youtube later cheers