Hello everyone. It's nice to see everyone here. And before we begin, just a moment of big applause for the organizing team and the entire team. I know how much energy, time, and dedication it takes to make this happen. Thank you, guys.
So today we're in New today we're in New York, the center of liquidity and capital markets, and our guest today actually started his career in traditional finance, right? You started at Bank of Career , then you had a role at City Bank, and if I'm not mistaken, at several other crypto several other crypto companies, and finally, CEO CEO , for almost four years, at one of the most used protocols in DeFi. One of them, you know what? Just a few days ago I watched your interview in Davos. This was in 2024.
At that point, you shared your perspective on this as the convergence of Trade Fire and DeFi. And today we sit here, in 2026. We see that the market has changed a lot. We are moving from a speculative market to a traditional implementation and use of capital appropriately. But still, one of the biggest problems we face is liquidity.
And actually, if you look at the market today, about 80-90% of about 80-90% of liquidity is idle liquidity is idle , not working, we're not using it properly, and I'm just wondering what your perspective on that is, what is the root cause of this problem? Thank you. Thank you for your question. Hmm, as you mentioned, 80-90% of mentioned, 80-90% of the liquidity that is idle, um, in the DeFi space, largely comes from liquidity fragmentation. Hmm, you know, as investors, as owners of, um, assets, you need to place your liquidity, your assets, in several liquidity pools separately, and that's necessary to make them functional.
And, um, that's, I think, the biggest problem, um, in terms of DeFi liquidity, and we're, um, actually solving that problem right now, um, by implementing a shared, um, shared liquidity protocol. Yes. Yes. One of the things that's actually good that you, uh, touched on is that shared liquidity and intent systems, they're getting a lot of attention right now. But can you please explain why?
Why is this getting so much attention from people, and why is your system, your approach, different from others, like traditional pull-out systems? Yeah, I mean , as the name suggests, shared liquidity, uh, solves the problem of capital inefficiency in today's DeFi space. Hmm, which actually literally means that, uh, it allows users to get a higher, uh to get a higher, uh , higher return on their capital use. So, uh, your assets, your liquidity from your wallets, your self- custody will not be affected. I mean, you want, mean, you want, uh, your capital to not leave your custody, and, uh, we allow those, uh allow those, uh , assets in your wallets to be distributed, uh, between different liquidity pools.
So this is a new breakthrough and I think this is a new innovation in the D5 space. Yes. But when it comes to liquidity, liquidity, I think we should also discuss AMA and AMM strategies, right? Because you remember how many years ago this played a key role in scaling DeFi. But now I see more and more people talking about how this has become a kind of bottleneck for the next stage of the market.
What is your opinion on this? Yes, definitely. Hmm, I mean, because of the current...um, I...I don't think you know that DeFi started in 2019-2020, and I don't think there was any real innovation after that.
I mean, in DeFi, the very concept of a liquidity pool is a real innovation, uh, a new financial implementation, um, even in traditional finance, um. And it's never really improved in many ways, and now we're trying to really solve this , uh, core problem, core problem of the current system, the current DeFi system, um. And so we can look at the current AMMs as a bottleneck for, you know, the next implementation. And if we solve this problem of capital inefficiency, then, uh, we think we can really achieve the next generation of deficit- generation of deficit- systems. No, we always talk about capital efficiency, and we see institutional capital emerging.
And for example, if we talk about our favorite RWA, it's still the [] segment, which is the highest in terms of narrative. Not just a couple of weeks ago, I remember CZ just saying it's overrated, right? Uh, that was the first site, but then he said, "You know, guys, I thought this was guys, I thought this was overrated, but now I see it's underrated," because actually the quality of the narrative is changing, and you see new infrastructures emerging. But the interesting fact is that you see about $30 billion in blockchain right now, right? But the reality is that about $2.
5 billion is actively used in DeFi. The question is why and how can we change this? Because you talk about capital efficiency, but what is it like in practice? Yes, I think there could be two complications that could hinder the real implementation of RWA in the DeFi space. Perhaps one of them, as you all know, is the issue of compliance and regulation.
And again , the second is liquidity, and people don't know where to trade. People don't know if it's possible to trade RWA at efficient rates, ahem, the same rates they would trade on traditional financial platforms. And, um, I think we all know that those two obstacles are, um, the biggest obstacles to actually implementing RWA and the D5 space. And, um, we're actually addressing both, um, aspects at the same time. We want to [ at the same time.
We want to [ ], um, the most ready, regulatory ready DeFi protocol, uh, to, uh, really embrace this, um, new RWA, uh, trading, uh, which, uh, allows us to be, uh, be the best partner for, um, the RWBA exchange mechanism with other partners, other, um, you know, customer-facing platforms. So that's one aspect, and as I mentioned, this new, um, shared liquidity protocol shared liquidity protocol that we're creating, um, will multiply the liquidity, um, RWA liquidity that's in the D5 space, um, which will really, um, have an impact, um, on this D5 space with, um, RWA adoption. Yes. Simply speaking, continuing this theme of tokenization, but now we see that yes, there are issues with secondary liquidity, the market is fragmented, regulation has not happened yet, but you still see that, like different asset classes, they are emerging on- chain. What do you think would be the key solution for RWA to become more efficient, apart from liquidity?
This is simply your personal professional opinion on the matter. Well, I think the real, real breakthrough of this combination of RWA and DeFi is that if you actually trade RWA in DeFi, then you have the opportunity to generate additional revenue that only DeFi can bring. Um, you know, if you hold onto your other, uh, your, like, your securities on traditional platforms, uh, you're not really generating any additional revenue. You, you, at best , will receive dividends. But if you trade your RW you trade your RW assets on Defy Space, then, uh, you get this liquidity pool, uh, trading fees and your, uh, Defy yield, uh, which is additional income on top of where that paper will take you .
So I think that's the biggest, uh, advantage of this combination of D5 and RAA. Thank you. And also, when we talk about the capital today in the US, as I said, it's the center of the world markets, and you have a lot of experience in the Asian markets. Personally, I also live in Dubai, right? And we say, "I also have a lot of friends here and in Dubai, and we see the government's behavior changing, the regulations that we're implementing."
And I'm just curious to learn more from you; I think you know the Asian part, I'm sure you know the American part too American part too . It's interesting to learn more about capital allocation, especially here today when we have builders at this conference , how it works. And in general, what are the main, what are the key differences between the Asia-Pacific approach and the US approach? Well, I think the biggest difference today between the Asia- Asia- Pacific markets and the US market is that the Asia-Pacific markets are much more retail-oriented now. Um, I mean, cryptocurrency started, uh, with retail, but, uh, I think the Asia Asia Pacific region, uh, is definitely slower, uh, than the US in institutional adoption, uh, and a lot of that is because a lot of that is because , uh, you know, including Korea, uh, the Asia Pacific countries are really looking at the comparison to the US system, Wall US system, Wall Street, New York, that we're sitting with right now.
Um, it's actually great news that we have all these regulatory, uh, developments in the US, and, uh, we're already seeing, even more than regulatory developments regulatory developments , it's really bringing all the institutions together in New institutions together in New York and on Wall York and on Wall Street, and it's really driving a lot of change in the US, and lot of change in the US, and , uh, all the APEC countries, including Korea, are doing, uh, you know are doing, uh, you know , benchmarking in the US, on Wall Street. So they're just waiting for all this regulatory clarity to be ready. And I think that, uh, institutional implementation in APEC, uh, is happening, I know for sure that, uh, a lot of institutions are just waiting for this regulatory clarity in the APEC package, and, you know, first it's the US, and then everyone follows suit. I think that would be a likely scenario, uh, you know, next year, two years from now, and we'll also see a lot of changes in APEC with all the institutional implementations. As you said, New As you said, New York and the US are still seen as, for example, the biggest landmark.
But what are the key findings? What do you say: “Yes, that’s good say: “Yes, that’s good , I need to have the same” or “We need to implement this”? What are some key, like, a few things you would like to mention? Uh, maybe you can learn, as you say, like APEC and the US, you say, for example, that regulation in the US is evolving very quickly, that's what we need to implement Apex, uh, you know, or like us, they know how to work with old money, you know, just your personal key lessons from the US key lessons from the US ...Hmm, yeah, I mean, I think everyone is very familiar with what's going on in the Clarity Act, and, uh, they're very accurate.
All of the, uh, all of the, uh accurate. All of the, uh, all of the, uh , new rules mentioned in the Clarity Act have always been about undefined areas, undefined regulatory, uh, interpretations that we need, like APEC countries. So I've been working in cryptocurrency for almost nine years, and this is exactly what you know, the points that are addressed in the Clarity Act are actually the very key things that I started questioning nine years ago. And now it's really about clearer, uh, enforcement of the rules, which would, uh, make things much clearer for everyone in the Asia-Pacific institutional space , and I think that's , uh, a key part. Yes.
Regarding the rules, the fact that they are bringing it to everyone, as we said to everyone, as we said , for example in the US, yes, and then as I said, in Dubai it's Vara in Europe, Mika is also playing his full year. So that clarity is obviously needed, but also, talking about liquidity right now, the market is obviously not that good. But what is good? We are still here. I see a lot of builders, amazing, uh, projects coming up, and actually a lot of projects are about to launch their new things and bring them to market.
What is your own opinion? What will be the next stage in terms of liquidity? We have some problems right now, but I would like to talk about the future. What is your professional expert opinion on what comes next? Yes, definitely.
In the DeFi space, as I mentioned, um, I think the lack of interest, or um, the current assetless market, especially the assetless market in the DeFi space, is definitely a yield. You know, um, you know, it all started with...everyone knows that D5 started, um, as speculation. Everyone was providing over 100% returns, um, on the tokens they owned, the tokens they issued, and people miss that time, you know. Yes.
Yes. Me too. But, um, anyway, that's gone now. And, um, the returns in DeFi, in general, are quite unattractive, um, because of the complexity and sophistication that it brings to users. And, um, you need a bigger reward, and I think, um, the only solution here is not another speculation, not another fraudulent coin; it's actually, um, better capital productivity through, um, new innovations, and that's exactly what our 1st joint liquidity brings.
So, it's definitely going to bring, um, very fundamentally supported higher yields, and that's generally, um, it's definitely going to attract more interest not only from retailers but also from institutions. Yes, thank you. That's, um, actually a very good point about profitability, you know, because there are still a lot of projects out there, and they're bringing their rewards. This is very good advice for our guest, but before we finish before we finish , I would like to add some energy to our conversation. I have a few bonus questions.
So, the first question is, let's say, morning. How do you start your morning coffee or emails? Slack. Slack. Good.
Not to challenge or trade for equity? Diversify the mix. Good. So, if we talk about the market as the energy of a bull market or a bear market, then a bull market is definitely building. We are all waiting for him.
You know, just a few days ago I was on Wall Street and I took a picture of a bull as a sign, guys, to remember that the bull will come back. The market moves cyclically. And one more question, because we're still interested in, um, one strategy for each. What is one major key goal for everyone for 2026-2027? Yes, I think I've mentioned it a few times already.
Do you want to share liquidity share liquidity ? This is, um, the next generation of DeFi. Yes. And for you as the CEO of the company, right? What is your key goal, if you could put it in one word, maybe two?
More money. Yes. Good. So let's say we meet here in a year. I am sure Kartik will be very happy with the conference.
He will double it, or maybe it will be a conference three times bigger. Everyone will be in suits because capital efficiency will finally be ensured . What theme do you think will be the key narrative in a year? Well, as we're now scaling this up to shared liquidity shared liquidity , I think next year the most popular keyword will be shared liquidity, where people will already be, um where people will already be, um ...
Automatic transcript — names and jargon may be misspelled.