Women's Leadership in Global Finance Driving Impact in Emerging Markets

[Music] good afternoon I'm so thrilled today that we have amazing women here not only sitting next to me but I also see lots of amazing women doers who uh really were able to uh to start from scratch face the challenges and at the same time Inspire others so uh thank you very much for the organ to have us here to witness this and to mingle and and learn from the lessons that we're going to be uh hearing now the the discussion with with the both of you ladies is very inspiring and I would like to ask the first question was it an easy uh mission for you to reach where you are now please thank you very much Caroline and thank you all thank you for I'm pleased and privileged to be here um I have to say I've been U Less unfortunate uh I was um it was a very interesting ride for me and it was been a very smooth basically uh I had to work hard for it but it's been I've been always blessed in to work in institution that provided support for women uh in finance they were not when I started in finance there were not a lot of women doing Investment Banking because this is where I started in Investment Banking but uh you know uh uh it's it really depends on the people you're working with the environment that you work with and whether you're being given the opportunity and then it's up to you to be able to deliver and to uh basically take the opportunity and uh use it to promote yourself and to grow so from that angle uh it takes a lot of hard hard work and dedication but again you need to also be provided with the right uh environment and opportunity not everybody not all in tions are alike and not all firms have the same um basically uh process or in terms of involving women in uh in in businesses so you have to really be with the right platform uh and the firms there's also a lot of responsibility for the leadership of the uh businesses to promote uh and support women when they do um basically throughout their career whether it is early on as you start as a junior Banker or analyst was or as you progress in your career uh and you reach uh you know middle management and you're looking more into uh how you want to grow and take leadership position so you need to be provided with that opportunity okay was that the same case with you emna I think corporations um come much later um your journey starts basically at your home I would say I was an exception um to have a master's degree or um a career let alone an international career and in finance but I also say that every woman here actually is an exception and that exception is because everyone over here has an immense level of courage and perseverance and self-belief you should not expect everyone to have the same level of Courage perseverance resilience and self-belief so the world itself is not designed as an equal Fay I don't know why I had more courage than my sister when we were brought up the same way we were supposed to get married in her early 20s and I have kids by before end of 20s because the biological clock ticks I had my kid when I was 36 right growing up I had a 32- year-old Grandma so but I am an exception I don't know why I had more courage why I had more perseverance why did I decide to fight through those nms most women will not have that I think the environment for me first of all starts from the family the upbringing you have to create an environment where girls are actually raised the same way as boys are it's very different today I live in U I'm very fortunate to live in U right it's a it's one of the safest places in the world and most parents over here are actually raising both boys and girls exactly the same way walk into any mall go into any toy shop go at any birthday party you will see how girls and boys are segregated it's so much around us everywhere that only once you have it at the front of your mind you would realize that we are actually telling little girls from the very beginning that they are limited we need to start raising little girls as full of self-belief confidence conviction and that starts by whether you have a niece you go to school drop off you see the children over there you go to play dates I see it everywhere so I I just think no matter how happy I am with the progress no matter how happy I am for by the grace of God which I have achieved it's such a long way to go I cannot expect every woman to fight through those barriers and they should not if a man doesn't have to I should a woman but the question here is it something that we need is this something that we need to teach and train women to become like this or is it the responsibility of school is the responsibility of the community or the family whose responsibility you think ra I think it's a combination I agree with Amna that it starts at home you need to be as a you know a growing up girls need to believe that they can do anything that they want that there is no kind of set bias in terms of what they can or cannot do that they are U you know basically able to do the maximum potential and I think once we eliminate these biases when you're you know by raising the girls to be able to uh feel that they can do whatever they want they want to be an athlete they can they want to uh you know be uh work in become part of the national team uh when it comes to soccer why girls don't want you know because a lot of people have misconception about what can or or journalist or what you can or even women in finance when I started a lot of uh you know um you know this was not the not a lot of women would choose Finance or even if you study in University Finance you probably will not end up in investment banking so I think you need to always you need it starts definitely at uh you know in your home environment in your family environment but then after that you have the other stakeholders that you need to you know it's then education at universities people uh at schools and then at University for people to be able to uh understand the potential of you know what you can and cannot do and that there are no biases when it comes to gender you know you can you need to you need to understand what is available for you and then basically be able to uh uh to go for it would you like to comment on that ra said it very well um I I think the the very important thing and I'm so grateful that I'm living in this era eight years back I would not have access to research and data that talks about um how women have a disadvantage or why actually women are not equally represented to Dr Eliza's comment policy is there government is supportive Frameworks are there by corporate so why don't we see the action right but now there's a lot of content available so my first request to everyone is educate yourself you don't know what you don't know that's the first thing right I'll give you a small example I I took my daughter for um birthday and the organizer who was doing the activity for the kids he segregated them with girls and boys right it didn't even occur to me that he's doing that I am myself having this vir it was normal for me right and it was a huge massive play area I'm sitting there not noticing this at all seeing it it's being done like that it was normal for me my daughter comes to me and she's a short petite girl even though she's seven-year-old she can pass by as a 4-year-old she comes to me and she's like I want to be in that group and I said that's for boys I made this one for girls he's like why why I can't me in that one I'm like okay let me go and ask I go and ask this man I'm like what did is segregate like girls and boys he needs like the height requirement over there is 120 CM so I'm like there's some girls tall over here maybe you were better off segregating by height so I get the safety thing right so first of all she's 5 cmet shot of it yet she was like standing on her toes to bypass the height thing but then I told her I was like okay go stand there they're doing it by height they're not doing it girls versus boys right stand over there and she was trying to cheat the height system but the important point was that nobody noticed it and if she had not come and said this to me I would also not notice it there's a research in the US where they observed parents in a park and when boys were climbing parents were cheering it's no flaw of any parent they're the best parents in the world possibly but when girls were trying to climb they were using words like be careful you may fall right so that to me is the first thing be aware of what happens then leverage your leadership capability or the role that you have in a corporate world that's extremely important for me when we talk about walking the talk first of all be aware of the biases that you yourself would have right there's a motherhood bias so your gender is a challenge you want to become a mother that's a challenge if you want to remain single and not have children even that is a challenge and let me give you example to break this down there's a research that was done where two completely similar profiles of women were segregated into mothers and non-mothers and they faked it what they did was that they added a s saying part of parent teacher Association you know to make sure that the recruiter and the manager knows that this is a mother group there was another one where they did not add this sentence exactly same profile guess what happens the hiring manager recruited 84% from the non-mother group The Mother group only 47% were chosen it doesn't end there the starting salary was $1,000 lower for mother when it CES to when it came to Father father get a fatherhood premium why because he's the bread provider oh my gosh he's providing for kids we need to pay him more so your gender is a problem you want to have kids as a problem let's say you don't want to have kids women who are either single or not married they were expected to stay longer hours because guess what if you don't have children you don't have a life so you should stay longer at work what else would you do but that's not the same expectation from men then there's a Maybe Baby bias you know that if you're married and you show up at an interview it'd be like how can you ask if you're planning to have a child do you ask that to a man but are you implementing both of you ladies your your seniors in your jobs are you implementing these beliefs when it comes to leadership and treating also women and talents who are coming to your organizations let's be very Frank here yeah and I would like to move around okay I think at Franklin Templeton they take diversion uh diversity and exclusion very seriously I think it's top it's a top- down approach uh and it's uh just to make sure that it cuts through all the organizations so they do have a dedicated framework which is which is sent at a global level and then uh it's been also localized if I may say by having Regional Council so that each region has certain Champions which are senior leader in their country so that they can bring the local experience and the local knowhow and the cultural nuances on what works in terms of diversity and inclusion I think what's very important at what Amna was saying is that it's very important to recognize that diversity is an asset for the company that it's very that if you don't have diverse team you don't have a diverse decision- making process you're not doing service to your company you're not doing services to your client and that is not sustainable going forward and diversity gender is one component of that diversity but when it times to uh when it comes to gender in particular this is very important so at Frankin temples I think diversity is first of all how do we look at it we look at it at people we need to have diverse team we need to make sure that in and that in our teams we have women at various level of leadership from we have uh and we have different criteria you can I mean you do have certain kpis that you have to put in terms of what's the percentage of women that you have in the workforce what's the percentage of women that you have in the investment professional uh so these are the investment professional and then what is the percentage of women that you are uh uh basically grooming for them to become the Future Leaders and uh it has come from the top and we're fortunate because in our leadership we do have a lot of women representation uh globally and regionally the other angle of it so then that actually allows you to have this decision and the importance of this decision and why it's important to have these uh diverse team um uh an important uh basically priority for the company then you need to move into education we need to educate ourselves we need to educate ourself why diversity is important we need to be be aware who ourselves uh the employees whether it's your leader and I'm not only talking about women I think the education has to apply also for men that work in companies because we all have but are they accepting this type of education in my opin they have to accept and I think it's the they have to accept because we have to have diversity in how we operate and I'm talking about the experience of the you know the firm I work with where we do when you see that you have teams that are sitting at the table you know taking important decision they leadership decisions they're not uh you know and they are involved in the decision making and you are hurt uh I think you have to do two things you need to first of all work you need to ensure that men are uh we need to educate across the uh across I would say genders men need to be educated and women need to be educated uh about our potential and men need to be educated about accepting and if there are any biases and I'm not saying it applies to uh we all have some biases we need to be aware of them and uh and so I think education also is very important and we have this uh culture and this is being implemented and I think the the second thing you need to put is practices so you know you have women in the workforce you've mentioned you know working with Mother you working women women you have mothers that and typically you know your middle management you're about to be uh you know promoted you start a family is this going to hold me up from being able to get you know important positions I think again having uh you know the flexible hours accepting that basically accommodating women and allowing them to feel that if you decide to plan a family this is not going to hold you back this is not going to not allow you to be promoted I think this needs to also um be implemented in terms of strategy and practices so pract so people practices and then you need to work on also practices that impact spend so you have maternal leave so what we've done in the UAE for example we've introduced paternal leave so why should only uh we assume that women only have have to be the carer you know in a family but if you start encouraging your men employees that you know you just had a baby you need to take paternal leave because if your wife is a it's a shared responsib it's a Shar responsibility so you have to start from your own environment your own in so if we do it at our level for our you know you know male colleagues and if this is now becomes a shared responsibility you're also changing mindset so changing mindset it's important and I think lastly I would say there are external um basically practices that you have to do and commitment that you need to do in order to promote diversity and inclusion and we were talking about that earlier you know we've introduced a few initiative and I'll just quickly maybe um mention with uh one thing that Franklin TL introduced earlier this year in Saudi Arabia which is Head Start which is a um a partnership with Princess nura University in RI in Saudi Arabia whereby and Princess nura University is one of the largest women only University in the world so we wanted to try to uh Start Spreading also uh supporting women in Saudi to be be exposed to finance and in particular Asset Management so we have entered into a partnership where we are um basically providing an offering as a first batch for 150 student in from um you know princess university the the opportunity to to have a pro program which combines both work and uh uh education and work so they will have with the Franklin Templeton Academy uh specific courses which will allow them to understand more about the asset management business how you you know choose your construct your portfolio how you do your assessment but at the same time you're also offered for out of that 150 group for some of the I would say the highriser the ability to also do uh an internship so having a an act an actual experience in our in Riyad and our offices in Dubai so that they are exposed to the word of Finance for us it creates it spreads awareness we're supporting the stakeholders start through education and also this allows us to you know uh identify our next recruits okay I just wanted to remind it also remind the audience as well that we will if you have any questions please raise your hand during our discussion we will also open the floor for questions uh to be addressed as well but let me ask you a question now if you if you receive an application two applications one for a male one for a female both are qualified and you have to choose one which one would you choose the same qualifications so should I tell you something which Rana said that it comes from the top there's another place from which it needs to come it's your heart you can decide any policy put any Frameworks if people do not believe in it they would always find a way out I would choose a woman and I'll tell you why so my direct team is 80% women I have women leading big pnls doing massive sales BD kind of jobs um underneath have some women which are 100% actually women team so usually in my meetings you have like a poor one man you know sitting in a corner and they're all women so we get this employee engagement survey and in that Employee Engagement surveys there was some verbs which I always read right there is a verbum written that you know men feel a little bit um uncomfortable because they feel they don't have a chance to grow in their career because this is so much of a women Le team heavy at the top right mm that's the concept you mean no some employees had written as a feedback to me as a leader that I'm running this these massive teams and they're so much heavy with women at the top that they feel they don't have a chance to go to the top but you still choose a woman you're going to choose a woman let me tell you the the story quickly so this is not recorded right I'm sorry it's not recorded right it is recorded I still need a job yeah okay okay good so my HR head came to me and she said oh what are you going to do about it I said nothing she's like what do you mean you know we need to take actions if employees are concerned I thought for thousands of years millions of women have faced this hell yes let two men feel bad about it I don't care simple as that I don't care okay so if women can actually get an opportunity it will not change the stats there 139 years for us to achieve gender parity let it be okay I got your message the same question but please briefly because I need to ask the audience I would say I would choose depending on basically attitude I think it's important I will give equal because I don't want to also be biased because we're talking about my answer was everything equal yeah I mean I was saying because we're saying we want to be fair but we're saying we need to have unbiased opinion so I want to also uh have an unbiased opinion okay I'm going to I'm not only a moderator here but also as a manager if I choose one I'll choose a team player if they're the same qualifications everything the same I want somebody who's a team player not uh uh having their own show on their own that's my decision but I'm I'm going to ask you here all of you before the questions and answer I want to ask you a question please if you believe that choosing a woman is the right decision I need you to raise your hand not because you're attending an event that is focusing on women I want you to be reasonable who would say that yes choosing a woman is the right way raise your hands please including the Ambassador okay all right who then can I see also hands who says that man was supposed to be the man is supposed to be the one of course okay I'll come can can we get a microphone here please to the gentleman here if you don't have a microphone I'll get you one no I think they you were so lonely you had to raise both hands no but but it's so the majority of the people who didn't say it so they are like what they don't have any decisions or what exactly you're doing I'm [Music] sorry thank you very much okay sir please go ahead me and my wife her money is her money and my money is hermany well okay maybe a lot of people would like to introduce you to their partners then thank you sir thank you very much okay anybody would like to comment on this before I go back to the questions okay go ahead please I'll give you the chance because one male one female I am one actually one of the most male oriented Industries is oil and gas and uh it's very complicated for a woman to get on top is uh very male oriented and I have work on site also I have to say I'm Canadian and in Canada they give opportunities to women but at the same time you also give opportunities to men it's not about gender for sure but both have to have the opportunity I believe in not paying the bill 50/50 but at work we have to have some 50/50 contribution which I don't see unfortunately here all right thank you very much for expressing but we need to close because we need to go back also to the other questions which includes you please sir absolutely please I'm I'm my question to the to the panelist is that would you agree that someone woman would actually choose the man I mean I've worked with colleagues at a Fortune 500 company back in the States and more more so than not when they had the chance between choosing um a man candidate or a woman candidate they actually would choose the man thank you actually some people would would consider you bias if you choose a woman unfortunately um I worked uh at BCG for many years and in Industries like Consulting and Investment Banking this is a very common problem especially at senior levels uh one of the things that we found is how uneven the recruiting slate is um and so I think what's really really important is to push really hard to balance the Slate you have to get in the man and the woman at least equally into the round then you choose based on Merit but very often you'll find that for some of these top roles it's only two or three or four or five men applying at all thank you very much 30 seconds I think it depends also on the age of the woman I do think that a lot of uh hirers uh consider whether the woman will get pregnant or not my suggestion was both are equal with all the qualifications equal in terms of qualifications and age but the men cannot get pregnant are always 25 and holding until they take parental leave men we will not get to equal to parity I think thank you thank you very much all right we'll go back we'll go back now to questions we've talked about opportunities let's talk now about access to funds we heard a lot about challenges that the women are facing when it comes to funds what do you think of that is there a is there a bias when funds there could be bias uh I I think there's bias in everything so I'm not saying that women are you know there could be opportunities where men where women are not treated fairly when when they apply for a loan for example if you're a women entrepreneur and you go and apply for a loan it depends on who's reviewing your application or who's assessing uh basically these situations so they are so there I mean historically we've seen uh women at a disadvantage when it comes to access to finance it's only 2.1% of the global Venture Capital funding that goes to women so definitely there's a much bigger problem in entrepreneurship than in corporate life you don't have to even like mention there's a problem I think problem is multiply and multiply and quadrupled in the entrepreneurship world and you don't have the corporate umbrella why well I it's very hard for me the numbers are are are so depressing but why is that that's why I said you need more allies in both men and women who believe it from their heart the top to me does not matter we have an equal slate policy at Master Guard 50% have to be women that's the minimum you know what I do I make sure 75% of my slate is women the companies aren asking me to do that should I tell you what some people would do they would actually go and tap a woman on her shoulder and say I think you should apply for this role why they did a tick on the Slate it's 50% then in the end they would actually choose the internal candidate the man that they wanted anyways but they say listen I had an equal slate or she doesn't have consultancy experience you knew from the very beginning when you tapped on her shoulder she's an internal candidate she did not have a consultancy experience policies Frameworks government legislations public policy this cannot fix the problem you have to believe it in in your heart hir leaders who have created women leaders normalize child care I we have an equal maternity and paternity policy I tell men in my team when you're leaving early you're telling me right or you're telling your manager that you're going for your daughter's pickup or whatever go and say about it in the open space the women around you will feel comfortable about child care bring women back to Workforce a threeyear gap in the CV becomes a problem yes men do not have that problem because at least till now they're not giving birth right so you have to bring the back to the workforce problem is not only bringing them back to the workforce I have met so many women who are Mentor I want them to bring to for them to come back to Workforce I can tell you after one minute of an interview I will not myself hire them okay their confidence and self belief is so low like fix your posture sit properly you worked in cyber security it's such a niche field you are desirable you wanted in that field no but three years I've been out of Workforce then the challenge is your challenge is with women themselves it is a two-way street because I'm telling you I've never seen a man say no to a promotion you know how many times I've seen women to say that oh no no no I don't think I'm ready for that I think I don't have this I don't have this I don't have that you think the man who's applying for it he has all of that no he doesn't tap on a woman in a shoulder everybody all of us can do that when I see a woman in a meeting and she did not say a word even if she's in my team not in my team I go out of the meeting room I tell her you wasted an opportunity what do you mean I said you're so smart you have all the content you did not speak speak in the meeting no one noticed you were there it's such a small thing confidence and self-belief comes when you will surround yourself with people who would uplift you our performance appraisal system and Corporation itself is crap what do you tell people here are your areas of strength here are your areas of development what do 90% of the women do when they leave the room they only think about areas of development you look at any sports people Excel based on strength not on areas of development yeah but when it comes to funds it's the same problem person send you an application and and and they are applying and but do they really know how to follow up on their rights they don't know how to network I sponsored an initiative called women achievement awards I do it across Eastern Europe Middle East Africa I got 3,000 nominations of women who had started their businesses some lady actually in Palestine even having an oil you know which is producing from our house very very small businesses right some got funding some had no funding by the way was one of my winners ofme Awards four years back House of Pops um God bless her she just had a child so when I did this award first of all I got so many calls it's a scam I was so surprised when my conss told me why women don't believe that they would get a business class flight to Dubai and be on a stage and be actually have access to fandu you know was on stage they had access to such a big a VC FM they had access to women leaders and Men leaders across the world who would actually give them them such a massive platform okay why don't you believe that you're invited lack of self-belief can you come on the stage a lady from Uganda who's actually making drones because she was an engineer she was not allowed ever to fly a drone when she was working for somebody she was only cleaning drones she decided that because she's an engineer she set up her own drone company she designed drones she flies drone she has employed more than 300 women in Uganda okay now some people would say sorry some people would say that maybe the missing element here is to have some you know focus on mentorship to what extent you believe that mentorship is important the question is for us all so do you believe that mentorship is are you implementing that already I can see from Amina that she's mentoring her team indirectly but are is that something you have of course we do have it and I think you know within the organization it's available it's offered to uh men and women but in particular women you have uh uh you know you have different resources uh in in in our region and basically you can also do it external and I think what's important is to also showcase for women that to to address uh Anna's point is that for for women to feel confident that they can do it that they can achieve their potential that they can deliver on their aspiration and meet their objective they need to see and look at other basically aspiring women that had and role models that have achieved and that have succeeded so you need you know as you know each on us have we different stakeholders you people in the private sector in the public sector we all have a role to promote and to make this more visible so that people you know the um basically youngers or young you know women as they starting their career are basically able to see these role model and also so one thing there's visibility but also you need to make it available because a lot of them may not have access to mentorship so you need to have these programs where it it allows women to be able to take an opinion on you know is my file uh is my application for a loan successful uh complete how to present also how you go and you present or you pitch I mean you do have you're going to see later on a a number of on the second panel a lot of women that have started business so they've had also their experiences as you know women in Tech on how they've basically went and they pitched the investors and then when where they have faced the bias uh so I think you need to you need to do a combin of mentorship to your employees again I say men and women but you need to definitely raise the visibility of women that have succeeded that have aspired it can be in finance or in other sectors of course of course of course okay I'm going to add last two Politically Incorrect things after that I will say everything that makes sense so first I was not alluding to mentorship with all due respect I agree with everything that R has said okay uplift women through actions I'm not mentoring this woman who left the meeting I told her you didn't see anything probably I won't even see her again till 3 months it's a small action that matters okay we had an MR day at MasterCard they put me on stage because I'm the only senior most woman yes along with few other Emirates who were external right there's one emirati in my team she's I think maybe five grades Junior than me amazing incredibly talented woman I told her just before going on stage that javah I'm going to share your story because I hired her into a graduate program for MREs and then you be on stage instead of me talking and she's like what are you talking about look at the other other two women you know one is like she's the first aeronautical engineer of UA doctor and swad look at the other woman like I can't I said no you'll do really well trust me when I hear you speak you speak so well I came on the stage in two minutes I gave the story how jaah was hired I gave her the stage it's a small action I'm not mentoring her I gave her my seat on the stage that day she held the mic the first time after that I asked her how did you feel she's like I hate you for the rest of my life for doing this to me and it's a tricky action from your end as well it is I had faith in her more than the faith that she had in her and guess what she said to to Tango right it was my judgment call I'm telling you small actions where you can uplift women matter much more than sorry mentorship is like to me a very very kind of overused word and I'll give you another small example can I stop you because we are running out of I'm sorry uh I would like to ask you please are you really believe it do you believe in in mentorship and anybody really to got the mentorship and they they can tell the difference but we have literally five minutes so I need I'm you're not going to take the five minutes for one person okay so it's briefly please oh wow a lot of P um I 100% believe in it but it depends as well on the individual because I'm a person who built my career because I was supported by men but the man that believed the most in me ironically had four daughters so it does make a difference because he saw something in me and he's given me so many opportunities in rooms that I was not in that had he not supported me I would have not got there but again there are other women who did not get that so I think always when you're promoting someone you have to have a insight into their internal world and this is why I decided to work as an executive coach because I've realize women without even realizing what they're doing they're minimizing themselves and the way they sit the way they command the room the way they project their voice so can we uphold men for it yes but women equally thank you very much so body [Applause] else very brief and yes as long as I believe mentorship is very important but I also think that women are over mentored and underfunded so I think we need to give more funding to women even let us make mistakes that's fine but you know mentorship is great but give women more money you need sponsors you need people who will talk about you and your promotion when you're not in the room yeah please go ahead uh yes sorry hello hi my name is I'm a scientist so my background in stem I'm immunologist and talking about mentorship obviously in science it's about your expertise your skills gender doesn't exist and we did a study in Southeast Asia in support with KPMG on the gender in balance and we saw that until the PHD the end of PhD is 55% are women uh and the the other are men however after when you go to the workspace after PhD we have increase of men More than 70% and then 30% not only because they get married or have kids it's because um when we talk about uh mentorship when we talk about the support women don't support women that's very clear uh secondly uh obviously access to funding when you go to scholarships to start research they go to the stars who are really publishing and and unfortunately majority are men it's not the men's fault it's it's like this so it just a way we need to stop victimizing ourselves we need to move on as Her Excellency said we are in 2024 it's now not about the gender it's what's next how to go from talking to actions thank you very much thank you very much and I have to tell you as well from my experience whenever I'm traveling in the region and listening to some women sometimes the issue is and the challenge is that women do not know their rights some people they tell them that no no no you shouldn't be doing this but based on what no no which is forbidden but go back and ask for the for for the uh the document that says that you're not allowed to do it before accepting and and just leaving leaving the opportunity that was given to you so we need to know our rights very well okay now we're about to close and I know it's very exciting and very engaging I need from each one of you please one minute to tell us what are the tips you would give to the young people here you're still young as I said we're 25 and holding but what's your your advice to women who would like to become like you ra I think you need first of all you need to believe in yourself and and you need to um you need to believe in yourself you need to surround yourself with people that know your worth that are supporting you and if you're not in if you're in an environment which is not given you that support it's either you have to you have to you have to basically express yourself you should not to the point of emna mention is that we are sometimes uh we don't uh we don't actually make ourselves heard you need to make yourself heard if for any reason after that you're not given the support then you're not in the right environment so uh it's very important that you basically surround yourself with people that will provide you the opportunity to shine and to grow and to to work hard and then it's it's really up to you you have to make you are you even in bad situation it's really up to you how you basically take a back situation and you turn it into so with every challenge I see an opportunity absolutely thank you very much R Anna what's your tip I would say leverage the bio um met advancements uh freeze your eggs there's no need to have kids in the 20s it's your choice at the end of the day the support that you will get when you're middle to Senior Management is very different than you get when you're early on in your career when I had my kids I was already part of executive management I have a chief of staff I have an executive assistant I need to go to the nursery nobody will get to know she changes the calendar for me she drops a meeting she adds it something later she knows my kid sped time so it's a completely different support system that I can have versus I would have had if I was in my 20s you have that choice available I did not have that available but by the grace of God anyways I had it late in my life but be aware of the choices that the world world and the technology is giving it to you and then exercise it thank you very very much to everybody including my panelist thank you [Music]