Superfluid Reactor Summit: Web3 Native Business Ops

[Applause] [Music] i am super excited to welcome and kind of start this panel uh we're going to talk about web3 native business opportunities there's a lot of stuff that we've already talked about that is possible with this new business ideas to just new ways to think about using these protocols or just various protocols together but what we want to do is focus on the ability to honestly just think about what is a on-chain company look like or the future of managing businesses on chain look like so for this amazing panel i have four amazing panelists i have christoph from request network terune from coin shift julian from unlock protocol and mike from superfluid so we'll bring them all on stage and uh get started so welcome everybody [Music] good to see a lot of familiar faces um hello and uh before we dig in i'm gonna do the very boring thing which is i'll have each of you introduce yourself just so that for the audience who doesn't know what you are doing uh they get some context so maybe starting with mike um we'll let you know who you are what you do and then we'll just go next with with julian krista thank you kartik as a pleasure to see again after all this time working with youth global um i'm mike or mikhili um i am one of the co-founders of superfluid i had the pleasure to meet francescondia my co-founders almost two years ago now and build um you know this kind of platform that allows a value to be transferred in real time on uh on chain with evm network so far amazing julian hi i'm julian i'm this unfounded unlock a company that's trying to build or that actually has built a protocol for memberships an easy way for creators brands communities of any kind to mint their own membership contract and then sell nfts in the form of membership cards and these nfts have an expiration date which enables recurring revenues for businesses and creators so uh hey everyone pretty excited to be here i'm taron founder and ceo of coin shift so we simplify crypto trading management for dows and web 3 companies so started out last year and yeah i think pretty pretty excited to be here and my turn hello everyone christopher i'm an ex-cfo and i'm ceo and co-founder at request finance and very clear request finance is doing invoicing and payments in digital currencies and we have plans to launch a super food integration next month amazing um well so it looks like some alpha has already been dropped but we'll uh we'll get started uh with uh with our first uh kind of very obvious question which is it's definitely a trick question um but are there do we see actually businesses happening on chain or is it just speculation and and people just trading nfts and then uh putting money in defy and yield um uh i'll just kind of open it up anybody wants to take the first step we'll kind of go in yeah yeah i can start yes the answer is yes there is some business uh happening on chain uh just for i think just for conscience there was like 80 million but tarun will speak about that for request finance with processed invoices for more than 200 million so far and this is basically happening from our point of view for bill payments expense reimbursements and salary payments and basically the companies who are doing that kind of business there are of three different types the first one is crypto native companies and daos second one is basically professional services like lawyers marketing agencies software development companies and the third one is more web 2 companies transitioning to a web 3. oh amazing any anyone anyone else i want to add something to this and uh yeah just to add on it and all the categories i think the software like mentioned uh definitely like a lot of our users actually use request network as well so like you know it's a combination of invoicing core payments mass payouts like a lot of lot of things so all the categories are definitely there and third party sort of you know reimbursements and all those things are really going on so a lot of crypto native companies and the good trend is like there are some companies which use us like they just want to accept payment from you know overseas right and they just want like a non-custodial kind of solution so that they have like full control like how they should manage it so they they also are looking to really expand through on-chain sort of payments and acceptance right so it's like a new new sort of set of market which is coming i would even go i mean further in the consumer world where we're also seeing uh we've unlocked a bunch of creators basically monetizing with the audience and their fans and people are paying to access their content or access their communities one thing that i think some of you have experienced is tickets to conferences um a lot of web 3 events are now selling tickets through unlock and these are consumer uh you know people paying to access something so yes there is some business happening definitely i would i mean defer to the other guys christoph and tarun on the business side of things but we're also seeing that on the on the consumer side of things which is really really exciting yeah and i would add even that uh what we are speaking about basically activities that is happening on change for businesses are resilient operations so meaning it's not really depending on the market direction so whether there's a bull or bear market it's fine it's growing anyway so i think i'm speaking for all of us we're actually what we have seen at superfluid is that you know last year or the years before there was a lot more of this defy somewhere vibes or you know nft speculation but as the teams that operate in this industry start to grow and get funded and start building you know essential pieces of the infrastructure that powers all these services well guess what they have to pay salaries and raising voices and you have b2b value transfer but also b2c value transfer so um it's interesting to look at the blockchain industry as something that is also robust over time and not just as fragile as market price is um so i guess that anyone anyone here had that experience over the last year or so and it's good to kind of dive into that i don't know if you guys have seen any trends in this direction like have you seen more business happening on chain everyone's talking about you know is this the year of the dow is this the year of of on chain payments what do you think about it that's a great question but uh it's uh uh definitely the year where uh the builders are basically standing out and standing on top so the big builders exactly were like you were seeing mickey the ones other companies which have funding whether it's a dao a crypto native company or a startup from more the web to world but what we are seeing is that they are even the web 2 companies they transition to web 3 for efficiency like tarun was saying earlier and and this is something that's gonna stay for very long and uh i think what also happened is like you know i think in the last sort of if we call this market a beer market i would say in the last sort of weird we were not having like you know boom off like really usdc or our stable crypto coins right and all the vcs or investors have like money majorly in btc or and that's why you know all the major the companies were not able to raise like specifically in a stable sort of form and that is highly coupled the growth of robust infrastructure and do into the speculation or or other things right but the last few years it just you know highly decoupled from that and and that's why like you know two people just come to eat globals like hackathon and they can raise money that was not happening before and they can raise in stables and they can literally you know run like a proper business on chain and once that is you know exponentially growing uh i think that is like a tremendous sort of movement in this uh sort of business launch in business native operations right and obviously dao's is like i would say like a super set of all these things like you raise money and then you finally exit to the community so there's like a next level thing do just addition to that so i'll say like crypto startups all with three major institutions even investors you know all of these people are just now running businesses they they operate on top of crypto so that is something like really really good habit yeah and i mean you all mentioned usdc and stable coins she meets one of the major innovations not from this year i've seen from i'd say probably two or three years ago that's finally starting to completely uh permeate everything that we do in crypto like most people deploying uh contract with unlock right now actually using usdc as a base currency they're not charging an eth or any of the volatile cryptocurrency even like medica on polygon or others they're charging in usdc and so it's pretty clear that from a ux perspective the predominance of stable coins now is definitely a big unlock and has given businesses but also consumers a lot more confidence in terms of trading things because there's obviously the technology that you have to trust it but also the currency that you're getting paid in or that you're paying in and so seeing that is is something massive and something that honestly is extremely extremely bullish as a signal yeah totally agree and i would add that i'm surprised that we don't see a big other stablecoin that is not ust usd packed actually so there are some other very big currencies in the world and so far a lot of businesses even in europe or in asia they are dealing with usdc that's surprising yeah well i'm uh this is already a great panel because uh my job is already reduced from asking questions or getting all of you to engage so i'm glad here that on my next 30 minutes um but i mean like if i'm just kind of understanding all this right and i did start off with this this was a trick question right the answer is obviously yes and the answer here is like what we're clearly seeing is that people are behaving like businesses on chin without actually needing a legal entity for lack of a better reduction and that's kind of first of all just mind-blowing because you can get to almost the same skill as a really successful company in tech or even any other part of non-tech world and never even have to deal with largely the real world uh and uh it just still blows my mind uh it's maybe the question kind of i have is um all of you have customers that are in that category of companies that are not necessarily uh like allowed to seize their directly mostly on chain if you can observe any kind of obvious patterns like are all of them just behaving like exact normal companies like yes they have to do payroll they have to manage accounts receivable and send invoices or send money um is that just one to one are we seeing something better like maybe turn like seeing that for so many dollars like what's kind of been some highlights yeah i think a lot of uh i will say like the needs if you just compare from any company like the needs are somewhere similar but the experience and the things they want is like you know entirely different i would say so uh in short like uh you know if if you are holding sort of a lot of crypto assets and now you want to run like a payroll right what a traditional sort of uh system look like you can just you know rely on certain bank and then you just schedule payments and you can just do a lot of things through the sort of simple database right and you want the same operation in crypto but if you just say you know like we'll take the custody of the funds then you want automation they don't want it right so the the basically i think uh all the operations are very similar but the infrastructure and companies like ours request and you know like we we need to build that infrastructure layer basically to support those operations because the fundamental layer is like self custody right you cannot just use the same sort of tools to provide like the same experience and now the question is like how we can achieve the best experience plus building this you know ethos of right delegation trustless or permissionless kind of systems so that we can once we combine this this entire system is far more i would say superior than what we have seen in the in the traditional sort of system right so that is the common pattern we see so a lot of times we also try to apply certain principles because we have our banking app as well as a coin shift right and now we have as a coin shipped as a user like as a platform as well so we sort of a lot of times we compare like you know what what kind of experience we want but not at the cost of taking the custody or taking the trustlessness from the users so yeah [Music] i was going to say um i guess like if we kind of put you on the spot yourself is that uh the same kind of set of values and principles that matter when you're thinking about adding more features to request or how does that kind of change um anything for for you um no i'd say so basically how request finance works is you raise an invoice and you get paid on a on a wallet but you can't get paid on whatever that is a custodial or non-custodial you decide and the one who is making the payment so far he's paying from a non-custodial wallet so he's uh right now the integration that we've got is for example integration with the gnosis safe but basically a project like coincides seems super super promising as well with an even better experience so basically i would say i am a bit agnostic whether most of the future users is going to do some self-custody but the way i'm thinking about it for myself is i would not do 100 of one or the other so basically um i don't know like 50 50 or like uh trust some custodial services a little bit and also trust the non-custodial uh wallet which basically when you try the non-custodial wallets you trust yourself yep which uh which has some downsides because there is no centralized risk or a single point of failure in some scenarios with the not a letter but it's not a bad thing either i mean we've kind of been successfully doing that at scale um and uh it is in a way working for all of your customers uh to to some degree and uh but i agree uh maybe one follow-up that i have for turin is uh essentially like you kind of commented on there's some new infrastructure or just infrastructure in general that we need it is kind of the goal the way you think about it that hey we want to make the experience just a one-to-one with how existing banking looks like for your customers or do you think there's more than that like what's kind of the missing infrastructure pieces here for you and um how do you think about that yeah so the mix of definitely both things like there are certain things definitely you need to replicate as well like you know invoicing is there where it's it's mandatory like you cannot miss invoicing right when you are building like a crypto banking layer so this is there and then then you have to have like you know scheduling of payment these are the certain things you can bring but i think the interesting things which is cannot be possible and people needed is like you know some kind of kpi based performance kind of things right and and how will you really do that in a in a normal kind of database application it is not that easy so so these news what do you mean by that like can you ask your mom yeah so so let's say you know you want to reward certain contributors based on some kpis right and it should be trustless for those contributors now so you don't need to ask the admin like you know i need this payment at this time so i'll perform this and i'll get the money right so it's a trustless system which is not possible right so i think those kind of new primitives will be there so i think we'll be building building more kind of you know those kind of primitives and then there are certain things which is highly crypto native so one example could be like right now i just feel like you know multisec is highly operationally inefficient right it is built for security it is built for like securing your funds but it is not built for running your transactions every single day right so for that i think what we need is like more kind of modules on top of this base layer so that you can be operationally very efficient and that that is something like new kind of things you can do like scoping out certain call data operations technically right like this person can execute only these operations through multisig or or some kind of delegation so these kind of modules will be required and it is entirely new right so so yeah and uh to uh to confirm what tyron was saying no i added that basically i think we're saying the same thing but basically there's we can add the workflows to how the money uh is sent to whom and even um in which conditions and basically the the smart contract is allowing us to do that so we could apply a smart contract together combined with a superfluid for example for streaming of payments where basically there's total transparency and there is a trustless system for the the workers the builders the creators to get paid in a very transparent setup so if i take an example in the web to industry basically when the client pays and a sales guy gets a bonus basically all this could be automated if the client pays the bill then the sales guys get a percentage all this is automated transparent it's a clear workflow and it's managed by smart contracts and this does not exist yet but i think we are we are building the first pillars so step by step we're gonna we're gonna go there amazing um i do wanna give uh the other speakers a chance too so so what i'm hearing is um i don't know i just meant like a there's a there's a lot more that i think we can add onto this thing so the really interesting topic so we're especially you know we're starting off with okay let's try to get the basic building blocks of running a business on chain up and going from what we already understand how any normal company would do so you got stuff like invoicing you got basic kind of payments scheduling managing uh payroll and just kind of money flowing in and out those are simple building blocks that everybody needs um and it's great that it's not custodial but also it's fine if sometimes it's custodial because you can have the best of both worlds on where the asset is coming from um that seems like usually the building blocks you need for running a normal business with a bank account and an illegal entity clearly there's a lot more we can do here so maybe starting off with like what you think you like what are some of these like new pieces that we can add on and how do we kind of supercharge this absolutely what christoph just said is is very inspiring in that scenario because it means that when we think about companies on train we're very schemorphic we're really trying to apply the same model that we have when in practice i mean if i'm a sales person and i'm being paid by a company organization but i'm also getting bonuses based on whether the customer is actually paying the company and again with air quotes why do i actually need to be an employee in that scenario is that is that something that maybe i am just a member of a dao in that scenario and so that's kind of pushing us further down the idea of kind of you know theory of the firm where basically the company exists as a way to reduce friction uh between different people inside and outside when actually the chain itself is the thing that actually reduces a lot of that friction and right now if i'm a sales person i need to believe i need to trust that yes the customer is going to pay the company and then the the you know the the accounting inside the company is going to report that to the hr team that's going to pay me well if this is all unchained actually there's no need for me to get that information from the hr team there's no need for the you know the the accounting team to actually report this thing i can as an employee be immediately paid when indeed the customer pays for the product so so that's to me one of the things that i'm excited about is like we're going to move beyond these kind of skeuomorphic phase where we're just replying rebuilding the same models of off-chain companies and organizations to on chain and realizing that a lot of these is just craft that we don't need anymore uh and so that's gonna reduce friction and kind of make things much smoother and much easier down the line how does uh unlock fit into this uh equation for yeah yeah so the way the way we think a lot about these things is like unlock itself is a protocol from memberships and we think that many many businesses eventually will have a membership so in that framing maybe we're more like a 2.5 model in that scenario where it's like we're still the same you know existing companies the same media organization the same creators but they actually want to start thinking about okay what is it to be what is it to have a membership as a core business model versus just a transactional one so for media businesses that means that you know i get a membership and i access some of the content i don't actually necessarily pay per article i'm going to say pay in the form of ads per article because like the the ad is a transactional thing where i pay with my eyeballs in that scenario but i'm moving to a different status uh where okay now i'm a member of that organization we also are chatting with venture you know consumer goods product we're thinking you know what it's very very hard to do a customer acquisition but customer retention actually is something that can be improved a ton of times by having memberships as the core model and so we all know that amazon prime is a very good example of this where you know if you're a member of amazon you're more likely amazon prime should i say you're more likely to actually use them to ship your next code because you're you're kind of the sunk cost uh analogy where you i mean energy sun cost system where you've already paid for the membership why would you go some other store uh to get free shipping because you get it from them right away um and we're discussing with some of the brands you might have seen that starbucks in the us is going to do an fts for their loyalty points that's a pretty obvious use case of the unlock protocol in that scenario yeah and also for example what membership looks like in general right and i think fundamentally like in a way employment is a way to think about members if it's say you imply and you're seeing a bunch of dials actually use unlock for their memberships where instead of being kind of how much you own of government service that you have one and you pay every month and the fact that you become a member of that wiki gives you access to certain benefits and maybe the right to actually represent the company in kind of sales deals for example yeah and just similarly even benefits could be memberships right like you can get all these various perks even if you're employed in a different form or just directly on chain and exactly right mike do you can you think of anything else that we can use [Laughter] well quite a few actually um you know i love what what you said julian about this idea of moving beyond this geomorphic you know phase of crypto where we try just to mimic what is existing in tradify um we have seen that you know with every major transformational technology where people just try to replicate the existing world into the new technology standard but i'm extremely excited to see um you know what can be done natively on web3 right so there are some properties of the chain that are really really powerful like transparency a custody self-custody uh but also the kind of permanence or immutability and the fact that is you know normally good chains should be uptime 100 um so it never goes down right and in this environment you can see how most of our operations that generate friction in the world we're living in can be deferred to the chain and in that case they're not they're not only automated but they're also taken care of independently from what the community or the organization or the company does so you know you can envision services that are fully automated with very little friction or overhead that can provide outstanding you know value to the consumer or other businesses out there that's what i'm extremely excited personally but of course you know looking at the world with the superfluid angle um i'm really excited about this idea of interconnecting economical players such that we remove this kind of delays that are really generating a lot of cost and friction for the world right so if you're thinking about this idea of like payment failures or delays in in payments in general like the world used to run on checks being sent out by mail right now we have credit cards we have a lot better infrastructure in the tradify world but what if you could just like have a situation where a company can get all the value it generates from revenues in real time from their consumers or their you know clients in a way and then redirect that to the suppliers almost as it comes in so in that case what happens is you can really reduce the amount of capital that you need in your own account say to then manage these delays to make sure you have the buffer to manage the cash flow and that means that if you take the world economy and then you kind of reduce the buffer or the capital the working capital needed to just make the company work across the board can you imagine how much capital we can free up and put at work building better technologies for addressing things like climate change or you know those major problems you might just facing today so that's what makes me tick uh with this idea of web3 right you know you can have someone paying a membership through unlock that goes to a business that operates uh you know maybe in a super great fashion so with superfluid streams in real time and that value goes directly to someone working for that business that then is a collaborator that is being invoicing by a request network or you know using the management payroll from from the county shift world and try to connect the dots such that the person has that money ready to invest in real time through say ricochet exchange and that goes back into some sort of investment world eventually or some lp position that then fuels the next company that's gonna innovate you know and then and then this cycle continues over and over so this idea that you can basically inflate the economic value of a state or or an economy without adding more capital to the mix just using the existing capital in a more efficient way really makes me excited oh no that's amazing and i was going to just open this up for everybody else like there's clearly a lot of ways to do this thing in real time with just not just streaming payments super fluid altogether like how do you cannot see this changes what you're doing at your core maybe maybe yeah go for it yeah so i think like uh specifically what we're trying to build is like you know the the first layer is like cool treasury layer one kind of system right right now the tree infrastructure is does not even exist uh we have like we're calling like you know multisig wallet as a treasury sort of infrastructure right or so that infrastructure layer needs to exist and then basically how we see this is like all the any kind of any kind of you know core primitives to those strategy layer can be automated uh and then it can be run like you know real time so payroll is one aspect but we were very interested in things like where you know our employees are sort of you know getting the money and then they're just doing like a dca on on ricochet right and then it is already we are already doing that right so it is not like these are assumptions people really want to do something like that and that is something like you know we want to bring more these kind of perimeters which can literally automate the entire workflows in a very crypto native way and super fluid just you know uh do that like out of the box and and uh only like you know what i would love to add on top of it is like the entire experience of you know interacting with the current system is not that great right now and and we just want to make it like really really seamless so that from even you know the dow and min side or the delegate decided it should be super seamless to manage the flow rate editing the flow rate or they can just come for the right operation otherwise as you know mike was saying like they shouldn't be worried about like any other thing right for the the the payment will flow themselves so this is this is definitely we are looking and then on the asset management aspect as well uh you want to move forward on to that as well where you have certain kind of walls where you know one wallet is sort of generating certain yield and that yield is redirected to the payroll wall directly right so you and and it is like you know harvesting directly and when you are paying from that vault like you don't need to worry about like i try to come back and do all those things right it is like directly flowing so all your treasury operations are automated so just an idea uh we did not speak about it but i think there's no use case about paying a rent in streaming or maybe mikhail you're aware of that because actually that would really make sense you get your salary in a stream way and you pay your rent in a stream way uh that would be fun michelle are you aware of such a project yeah there's there's been a few um and someone's doing it more like from a hackathon point of view and others are doing it more like a business so what's interesting about it is that we we managed to stream to nft so that if the nft changes hands the stream redirects automatically so if the nft say is your house or is a parcel of land into central land and you're renting it out to someone the moment you sell that to someone else the rent redirects automatically without you having to you know ask someone to send a stream to someone else and redirect the stream manually which is part of that automation we're discussing before where you're basically you're just delegating to the chain all the kind of business operations to some degree so yeah that is one of the key use cases for sure and i'm really looking forward to seeing something like that happening for example in the b2c market as well like for example i don't know if unlock has looked into this as well to like have memberships like on streams um i think we were talking about it and you and francesco were talking about it as well but that would be amazing to see and yeah i'm just looking i think there's an ongoing project of integrating to both uh where basically you're right like the as long as you pay you've got the membership and the minute the stream ends the membership expires basically which i think is a very very brilliant integration um i want to jump on that actually because one point that i think uh taran made earlier like one of the core ideas of web and blockchain is the composite the web 3 and blockchain is composed the id that these things could all work together kind of lego bricks versus kind of the platform monolithic approach was like okay it's you go rely on this thing for everything in your business um i think businesses have realized like on when it comes to kind of digital at this point they're very very reliant on a very small number of actors like if you sell goods online well you know what your ads are all driven by google and facebook and then your shipping might actually apply by by amazon and these things are scary when it comes to doing businesses like you really don't want to have this much reliance on a small number of actors and one of the opportunities of web3 in many ways is to actually say no no you don't have to rely on on platforms like this you can be using open protocol uh like i mean super fluid is a good example of this um and what's i think even beyond that is like normally you can use these open protocols that would not be kind of rugged uh under your feet uh if things change but also you can collectively manage them and co-own them i mean which is kind of also kind of a very novel aspect like i i know a lot of businesses that are you know selling things through amazon or through facebook really want to have a say on the product world map of these companies and say no no you facebook this new kind of way you approach pages this is not the right way we're not we're gonna we're gonna struggle with this at this point this is very much kind of a impossible like basically every business that relies on these platforms at the mercy of these platforms but with web 3 and protocols not only they're using open things decentralized things that you know are immutable or at least have a clear mutability path basically but also they could collectively own them which i think is even one step beyond and one step further absolutely i was going to say we're getting a couple comments and questions from the audience too so if you have any other questions for a speaker please just type them in the chat and we'll uh we'll be able to ask them here no it's a really really good point too because um i feel like in addition to seeing in a way the basic building blocks being offered on chain like you're essentially what you're doing is you're you get to play with the granularity right like if i want to send a wire or some deposit is usually a minimum required uh when you do paychecks they do every two weeks or every month and you kind of now have a per second if not even less than that as a time interval and you get to do a lot more creative things when you can actually do this thing by milliseconds or seconds or just any denomination that's as granular and we've already kind of with blockchains we already kind of got to the point where you can now send money up to like a billionth of a dollar if not longer or more and uh that becomes more creative because now you have more service here to kind of do interesting things and yeah like it will be amazing if your salary stream buy by the second and same thing for a membership if i have to commit to an annual membership for x dollars and i decide to stop it three days in or 99 days in um you can prorate that and and those are just not easy to do in reconciliation in traditional sas or any other model and i think superflow just makes that world amazing and beyond that you can even automate what happens i mean the thing that i love about square footage it's like because i mean says businesses you know uh expiring cards is a nightmare for them he's like oh these guys who never spend like an hour on the phone to try to get them to update because they forget about it and at the same time the fact that they forgot about it is kind of a cool thing because they paid without reach worry too much but now that they're going to remind them that we exist are they going to stop paying and so i know there's a ton of businesses for which kind of it's a challenge but the fact that you can automate all of these things on training actually don't waste a dollar trying to call back a customer it's like hey you stop paying this is gonna stop you know working for you is a massive massive opportunity absolutely and uh and one thing that kind of just stood out to me with what you said mike before is uh like one like at first there's way more room to explore what new what three kind of building blocks are here for running it in operations on on chain but like even if you assume that there's nothing new to be invented which is definitely not the case um there is still a massive opportunity to increase kind of anything from what you can capture in values use the value you can generate uh for just the existing building blocks and kind of one obvious example which comes from a comment from uh from the chat is the fact that all these things are composable interconnected and inspectable on chain you have so many new benefits that you don't get in the real world now i can basically design let's say a tax management system that just understands everything that's going on it can fully make sense of everything without me having to connect something or having a custom integration and you simply just get to expand the size of what you can achieve or how you can actually use that information for better decision making or just better efficiency and we haven't even seen that world yet and that's just uh even if you invent nothing new from iran you can still have a massive improvement in existing processes and i think that to me is like the probably the most exciting part especially as we do a lot of logistics here on our end this is why would you not want that um and uh there's like 50 more things you can do on that one yeah i don't think i don't think accountants will like me or at least what i have to say now but the fact that you can if you if you were to have visibility on the revenue streams of a business um or even a consumer that means you can pay tax in real time and the amount you are going to pay tax is very transparent so i can imagine how governments would love the opportunity to charge taxes in real time for example on a stream so that part of your business operations are transferring directly into the government with a downside of them to have to be transparent as well in a way right so that makes it fairer for everybody now there's no real cheating but then all the information is available and i guess the public can make better decision because of the visibility they get so i mean we can bring this to the kind of extreme but we don't have to the point is there is efficiency everywhere you look um when you're using this type of infrastructure and i think web 3 is just a matter of time it's going to it's going to just unlock it over time yeah the way i see it is uh it's super promising but i uh basically it's difficult to imagine that the authorities are gonna set up this uh streaming tax system but uh i'd see first some kind of solidarity tax system that would happen like at a more or less global level just for uh certain causes that we could do on some transactions and voluntarily and this is something that could happen tomorrow morning yep so i mean since we've opened attacking on accountants um they'll uh i mean one piece here is that like there are so many things that exist just because there's a lack of transparency right um the fact that i can generate a anywhere from code to manage the most amount of cases whether their education just common conditions to have a consistent system that just works across anywhere from jurisdictions to to standards like you effectively can um get to a point where these things are generated on their own and forget like even if you don't get to the one where you're paying real-time tax uh i can i can foresee some some friction on that one uh from some government sides but uh the fact that you can still generate what it is um automatically even if it's real-time or even if it's static is still a massive improvement that just is a painful process for every single company here once a year you got to figure out what transactions are happening on chain what are interconnected sort of swaps in there you can fix this and uh and sort of enable a whole new frictionless sort of more granular world so i think that's uh to me already an improvement uh from this world yeah definitely and the the the reason why accountants are actually preparing books the reason why bookkeeping exists is so that we pay taxes so basically you know what i mean accountants would not exist anymore with that kind of job but would do some things which are probably a little bit more interesting no you're right this is interestingly uh a perfect example of uh cutting out the middleman um yeah we've seen the finance site for existing systems we've seen that on payment side and now there's like the the processing piece that is still incumbent um i know we're kind of getting close to our time on the panel so maybe one thing that i think will be interesting to end on would be kind of seeing what you're excited about like obviously all of you are working on open platforms um and if you kind of can have anywhere from requests to ideas for people to kind of build on top of like what do you think is like top of that list and what would you like to see more creative exploration on um i'll kind of maybe start with julian because i think you have a lot of ideas on how memberships can actually be integrated yeah so i mean it's it's going to be a big segue from what we discussed but i think uh mentioned a couple minutes ago uh stablecoins had been what a major innovation i think we're now at a point where we have all of these evm chains and i think we're all uh building on these um i know the bridge topic is a contentious one but i think it's also very very hard for end users and businesses to at some point manage you know five six seven eight balances of tokens across different chains and so thinking about a world that would be abstracting away some of the complexity of being on multiple evm chains where as a user i pay i start a stream from one chain and i know the stream is going to go through a bridge onto something else wherever that something else is is something that i'm really really excited to see i know there's a ton of teams that are working on this but for me that's the next big unlock haha uh in the in the ecosystem it's like how can we actually work um how can our work our protocol abstract away the complexity of a multi-chain world um and and i think it's going to be through um you know portable specific bridges rather than kind of agnostic bridges um and hopefully we'll see that uh happening in the next few months and so if you guys are working anything fun uh on that front please reach out to us we'd love to hear about this amazing attorney anything on ad i think 100 aligned with like julian we just feel like lot of you know our customer base is just setting up accounts on different chains for specific reasons maybe they're moving their protocol there they have a lot of treasury assets there right and the most friction is like they can't between multisec like they can't between the money between multiseconds in a very seamless way right it's very painful so we are also sort of looking for these kind of solutions which can work out of the box and i think uh like protocol based sort of you know right efficient sort of bridges will make a lot of sense for us and you know front-end likes are like can can integrate in a very seamless so i'm pretty excited on that but one other thing i'm pretty excited is definitely on the layer two of specifically on ethereum because previously like you know uh we all know like you know other than ethereum it was very difficult to really trust any other sort of chain where where you can just park some funds right with the security of ethereum so i think the the major defy is growing in the layer twos and that is something like you know we are very very excited about to grow maybe we will build a protocol specifically on layer two right and just like you know uh superfluous did that so so it is it is really really uh you know appealing to us i'm very excited no absolutely um kristoff i'll let you go next and then yeah just in a few words basically there are many innovative solutions many opportunities of things that we can integrate and there are many others that we could create and that we don't have yet but if um if we can have a next step where the next tools and the net net apps that we build are actually about execution making them happen so for example build on top of superfit build on top of the great products which already exist and make them happen and help the web 2 economy to convert to web3 that would be really nice and and further innovation can happen a little bit later that would be fine yeah you're right i think uh like there's a there's a we've kind of essentially been talking about just how do we exist and just do everything in your site but there's a clear argument that's a much bigger world that we need to move to 3 to be able to do these things efficiently on chain with the new features um and that's a really good point that was that was missed and uh when i'm just kind of processing what julian insurance said uh you're effectively talking about having different currency bank accounts which is still a problem in the real world side uh even if it's the same asset existing a different chain behaves like a secondary account in a different currency and you have different properties there that you have to deal with and i don't think you saw that at all in the web 2 world uh we're in the banking world so uh i actually am personally excited for that to just be solved where we just have a all-in-all solution that just doesn't let us spend any mental brainpower on thinking about where it's coming from uh we'll end with mike uh i'll let you uh kind of share your thoughts there too yeah i was just saying i wanted to say that what you just said is something that tyrone is addressing with this ability to manage multiple safe and also multiple networks with their new v2 so that's very exciting and we want to try to use it as well see how it was um for me i'm really excited about you know all the building blocks needed to power real a web3 native economy coming together so you've seen you know invoicing treasury management membership management subscription management i think you know we just miss some of the understanding of how to manage crypto and putting some oil on the wheels to make sure that the mechanics are fine so we don't have to go crazy chasing you know c-level executives of a project to sign a multi-sig transaction every other day just to pay someone because they made a bounty and they deserve to be paid in time right so these bits and pieces are coming along um and you know even some of the backend infrastructure now needs to have high slas right and when the service level agreement reaches enterprise grade um and there is no friction anymore then we will reduce so much inefficiency uh that will unlock a lot of time for everybody um more specifically i'm excited about how uh you know real-time value transfer would play on top of that once that's ready because with automation um you know assuming that all the friction is removed by the chains and by the tools that we're building then kind of real-time finance would hypercharge all of that so i'm very much looking forward to seeing like how this could uh could unfold over time with a real-time hardness by the transfer this year um no problem at all it's like i am uh myself on one of the live streams okay um no i mean that makes a little sense and and if anything i think superfluous reduces that friction with you know having a more optimistic once we go out with that and if something is not right you get to sort of put a pause on that um instead of taking anywhere from the full penalty to going through the decision if it needs to be uh to be reversed or stopped um so hopefully that was super informative for everybody else on on the audience side and if anything were i'm just gotten more excited by running a whole company without having a legal entity and i can't wait for more building blocks to exist so we can really think about that world just being our default so uh thanks again everybody and looking forward to thank you in future events too thanks everyone bye thank you