AMA with Jimmy Chen | EPF5 Office Hours

okay awesome recording is on thank you so much everyone again for joining especially Jimmy thank you so much for being here I really appreciate it um yeah we have a bit less people than usual because Jimmy is in um different time zone so we moved at the timing but we have have a recording so for anybody um who can make it will'll have the uh recording ready and um uh yeah uh thank you so much for joining on this special time uh again thank you so much for being here I know it's uh a bit late for you uh and uh yeah we really appreciate you uh having you here because uh Jimmy has been part of the uh EPF 3 uh and uh for past uh one and a half year has been working with Lighthouse uh so definitely one of the most inspiring Fells one of the one of the most sucessful stories so I really wanted to have you here to share your story yeah um yeah awesome um so before we uh before we jump to the AMA itself I have a few questions for you to uh just just for fellows to get to know you uh to learn about your background uh if you can tell us bit more about yourself uh what was it uh what was your journey before you uh joined EPF uh how did you even get into the program and yeah what would you been you've been uh doing before the fellowship you're yeah yeah I was looking for the unmute button um yeah um thanks Mario first of all um thanks for the opportunity um I'm yeah hon to be here and thanks everyone for joining um I know it's a bit of a unusual time for office hours um because I'm based in Sydney Australia um so it's 7 p.m. here I guess it's probably some weird time in other time zones as well um so just to start bit about myself um I started um learning about ethereum in 2018 um I got into a u a blockchain company based in London and I started getting some exposure into smart contracts and started get really interested in ethereum but then um um things Chang I I by accident I got into Enterprise blockchain after that so I spent a bit of time being uh away from like what what what I'm doing now um being away from public ethereum spent a bit of time on um ethereum um like I think it's called Quorum so it's like a fork or forg um it's like it's got a private transaction feature spent a bit of time working on that and um and then in 200 um 22 um I think after covid um I I was working for a Swiss company and um also doing work in the Enterprise blockchain space for uh Financial um service industry and I got into um I got an opportunity to um to work on a project that U mainly focus on um automating ethereum staking infrastructure and um ethereum staking that got me like interested in looking at various clients like teu prism ligh house and I was like quite interested in like the proof of State protocol itself so um I got the opportunity to um to go to death connect in Amsterdam I think it was in 2022 um I got like really interested in ethereum core development and I was doing a bit of um work um like open source work with techu at the time I I just basically look up on a few issues and and trying to contribute a little bit that I can in my spare time and that's how I got really into the court development and at death connect I heard about EPF like there were like two courts before then before 20122 and and I was told that that there might be another one coming like like sometime in the year so I was like just following the the E Discord like probably some of you are probably in the same like had the same experience and I I was lucky that I got the opportunity to join UPF at the end like towards the end of 2022 um and I was working with another fellow Gabby on um a project with Lighthouse um initially wanted to contribute to um EIP 444 which is the the net blob scaling um EIP and um I was like very closely working on that with the lighthouse team and um yeah just got close with Lighthouse team and I was just being like really grateful for the opportunity and eventually I join lighthouse in 2023 March I think um yeah so I had a pretty good time at EPF I think EPF was a really good opportunity to learn things um just because you get like direct access to client teams and get mentorship and help so um that's how I got into where I am today and I've been with the lighthouse team since since then and been working on various different things um like lots of small things so I can't think of a big feature that I developed unfortunately not yet at some point maybe I will but um um I've been working on very like various little things in like um consensus layer and most recently I've been doing more focused work on pias which is um P data availability sampling um that's my focus right now um yeah mer um Mar sorry um those a long answer to your short question yeah I'm glad that you uh you uh moved further to that uh yeah if you can maybe tell us more about the EPF experience itself like what was it like for you uh within the EPF you came with such experience already but um uh what did you what did you learn what was the process for you there uh I remember I mean you've been missing uh most of these office hours calls because of your time zone so uh maybe what was it like uh for you the look of this I remember you did lot of work but have been very uh self-directed so uh yeah if you can tell us a bit more more about that maybe uh some some retrospect on umf time yeah sure um I think um my my personal experience at the beginning was um like a bit loss um it was a very well structured program um like I think um I think Mario and um and and Josh um like structured really well and um I think the problem that I had at the beginning was like struggling to find a project that um I wanted to work on um because like when I was like interviewing with with Mario I said that I'm interested in doing i444 um doing the blob stuff in the neb and at the time I I don't think there was a there was a project that's like closely related to that so I was like struggling to find a project um so the first couple first couple weeks I was like just like looking around trying to do a bit of reading on account exraction do a bit of reading on on testing doing a bit of reading on denb like trying to find out what I wanted to do um and and it was like I think I struggled a little bit at the beginning um and also um luckily U there was another fellow um Gabby he was like interested in doing things related to neb and 444 so um we teamed together and um was kind of like a collaboration they would figure out they wanted to do a bit of work with Lighthouse so we reached out to Lighthouse and um yeah people were already working on theb so um we're trying to find a piece of work that would fit into the timeline of EPF which like three or four months at a time and um there wasn't like really something that's like fits like perfectly but eventually we we decid that we're going to uh work on like the build API changes for thep um for Lighthouse um so I think the project selection at the beginning was a bit of struggle and also after that I started thinking um do I really want to do Lighthouse I I don't know any anything about rust I was thinking to do teu but Gabby wants to do Li house and then um I was like thinking maybe is it going to be too challenging if I do consensus Lear try to learn consensus and try to learn rust at the same time it seems like I'm trying to like like solve like trying to learn like two very hard topics at the same time and I did really struggle a little bit like actually quite a lot with rust um at the beginning um there was like a bit of a um yes I spent a bit of time trying to understand it um luckily I got through it like just watching lots of videos reading a lot of things um so at the beginning beginning I I think it's it's not as easy as I I thought well I never thought it was easy but it was a lot of a lot of effort and a lot of struggle and I think there were times I I was not confident that I would I would I would be successful in this thing um and yeah but just I just kept working on it um and I think one of the thing that I I was struggling with was also the project because everyone else at the time came up with like really interesting project that um I couldn't come with any interesting idea like more interesting idea than theirs so I was like asking Mario and Josh like um is it okay if I just work on small issues just working for like with lighthouse on small issues um things that I'm interested in because I just like there's nothing that I really um I was I was interested in building at the time but um I think working as a client da is something that I really wanted to experience so I wanted to try to try to imagine what's a day like to be a cep um so yeah I eventually just ended up doing a little small things plus the build API changes that I mentioned earlier and that was a great experience and um I think I learned a lot as well um yeah um so it was kind of at the beginning was it was really difficult and then but eventually I got over and I think I think I have to thank um Mario and Josh for um encouraging me to to to do what I wanted to do was a bit different to um like having like a real project that I could present and at the end the presentation was a bit um was a lot of different things in one presentation as well so it was a bit weird but um I had fun I learned a lot and I'm still learning a lot today so it was a great experience great to be part of EPF yeah thank you so much Jimmy I'm so glad to hear that um especially like when you saying it was so good well structured it was the first cohort that we ran with Josh it was the first time we took over so uh I'm really glad that you uh you said it so positively in retrospect and uh yeah and it's also very very interesting very inspiring that like I mean you ended up uh doing such a great work with Lighthouse but uh you've been uh lost at first and uh figuring out the project so I think that's great because many people here uh have been um has been struggling with similar stuff but uh uh I'm glad that you you show them that it's not uh it's not uh uh just about the about the start but uh pulling through it and and getting to work that's great um and yeah it makes me wondering like um is there anything that you would do differently now or like you know if you could give yourself uh at the beginning of the cohort any advice with all the knowledge you have now uh do you have anything you would uh you change any any advice for uh for yourself thef or you know for I'm trying to get advice for the EPA Fells here if you have anything uh anything you'd like to to say yeah sure um thanks um anything I would do differently um I I don't know CU I don't I think it was a really great experience um it kind of hard to anticipate what like what I was getting into if I were to do EPF again then I know what I would do differently but if I was to like think about whether I did the right thing at time at the time I think I I think I did the best I could at the time just trying to learn as much as much as I can try to reach out to people and just talk to people um I think that I think if I were to do it again probably do it the same way um like just trying to work with others I think I did I was kind of lucky to have like um Gabby that was working with me at the beginning otherwise I think I'll probably be completely lost um he's also still doing doing great thing in the ecosystem um yeah I I don't think I'll would do things differently I think I think um I was kind of fortunate to have someone to work with and um kind of fortunate to to meet the lighthouse team I'm pretty happy with um the experience that I I had um any advice I think um like if I to give give advice to myself back in time um I would probably just say um don't feel like overwhelmed that everything's so hard like what are you looking at is the same thing that I'm looking at today if I look at new topic like for example inclusion list I had no idea about um I do the same thing like you would I just go to a spec try and re read people's post uh will struggle a little bit um I I'll just get through it um it's it's not so much different to like reading the article back in the days compared to now it's still Tak me a lot of effort to understand things I mean Even after spending like one and a half year in um ethereum core development I I still have a lot to learn and this it's just so broad that I could kind of only focus on one thing at a time if you're asking ask me about any topic that I haven't worked on I have to read it up I have to like open the E2 book again um so yeah just I think my advice is just don't be afraid of hard problems dive into it and you'll become like like and then you'll become um better in the field and you might even be able to help others and and just oh also a good thing to do is just to write do a write up every time you learn something it's it it helps yourself and it helps others as well yeah that's awesome thank you so much Jimmy uh it's very inspiring and uh yeah also what you said in the in the beginning I mention you work with uh kab who by the way uh has been working on blobs been a fellow uh not a mentor at the time uh so uh I think yeah this ability to work also with other other fellows can help a lot and yeah thanks thanks L Jimmy it's it's an AMA I'm folks uh if you have any questions for Jimmy feel free to raise your hand uh I always have some inro questions but I hope to get some uh uh get some from you as well so yeah uh feel free to raise your hand or write in the comments if you'd like um yeah K go ahead hi everyone uh Jimmy uh yeah can you hear me yeah so my question is uh how do you feel now as a core developer is it comfortable to work or there is a lot of Rush um how how do you feel about uh being a core developer now do you feel comfortable do you feel um good or still learn a lot what do you feel now um it's still very challenging um I it's comfortable that I'm able to do what I like to do but it's still very very challenging um there's still a lot of learnings um I I had to ask people for like about question lots of questions I have um yeah just finding time to learn different things is still a struggle for me um there's like so many things that on my list of things that I wanted to learn about there's so many topics in ethereum that's always so exciting but um I just kind of have to manage manage my time well and just focus on what I need to do so the times that I can't really get the time to understand everything um which is something that I always wanted to do because I'm curious about like how things work so in many projects that I worked on before I try to understand as much as I can but I think with the current thing the current project I'm working on etherum consensus layer there's just so many things that I don't I don't I don't know about and it's I wouldn't say it's comfortable um it's it's it's been challenging and still very challenging but I enjoy it great does someone Mentor you from from the lighthouse team uh any senior developers yeah um definitely um yeah I was very lucky um I initially worked with um Sean from Li house team um he was very helpful he T he um G gave me a lot of feedback about like my my pool requests and also I also share my my weekly post with him and sometimes give me some feedback as well or anytime I have some some diagram that I drew up I ask for feedback um yeah so I got definitely got lots of help from Sean um and also I work on some other issues other than the neb which um I also got help from Paul and um and Diva at the time as well so um yeah definitely spoke to more than one person in the team and um learned a lot from them and yeah definitely had lot of mentor and that really helped I think being a part of EPF also helps because people would answer your questions Ved go ahead uh you were talking to me okay sorry so how you doing uh my question is a bit random so I'm having this problem with uh I'm working on uh the prism code base and I wanted to ask like how do you guys uh what what does your uh setup look like like uh because you need to run the code to see what's happening and you do need to connect it to an execution client and you need to wait for peers like to find peers and to do stuff and like this this is a this is a very uh hard and frustrating process for me so I wanted to know what's the best thing I can do like what do you guys do to make this easy oh yeah um that's um a lot easier than a year ago um yeah so now there's a tool called um ketosis I think many of you have many many of you might have like came across it's it's really great um a year ago we like I don't think a lot of us were using that so most of us had to set up like dock compose or Bash grrip trying to run our nodes um so that was like a lot harder than today um today you can just use ketosis CI to to build up a local test net quite easily you your do image locally um for prison or any other clients you can do that quite easily um in terms of testing on like you talk about like trying to run a nde on Main net for testing or um because you're saying that you need a EO client right so um um if you want to to use an EO client for testing um and you don't have like that much um compute power resources to do it um personally I've been using a tool developed by Michael from our team called EO which is a a execution client multiplexer so it allows it allows many consensus client to to to share one single um execution client for the purpose of testing um it doesn't support block building um but it's good for testing um yeah EO is really good and kosis is really good uh so uh okay yeah so curtosis runs a test net uh on your consensus client right um it runs a like a full Dev net so runs like consens client execution client and also some other like external services that you need like block Explorer things like that like you can configure like like however you like you can run like two pres node and two Lighthouse node um however you like it you can configure in in a single um Json yile like is is data going through them like is transactions fake transactions coming and stuff yeah um there are various tools that you can you can you can configure to run um there's like blob spammer tool there's transaction spammer so you can just put it in your config file when the network starts it will start the the transaction spamming so it's quite useful of testing all right thank you very much uh some CR is covered by Perry and folks in uh the study group as well and uh yeah it's a great Tool uh bunch of followers have been using it so if you have any questions I guess you can just ask in Discord uh been PR the experience of it and uh before we get to another question from uh there is uh questions in the chat which are basically similar uh uh the question is how do you transition how did you uh get hired in Lighthouse so uh it's Jimmy was really great case because even before the EPF was finished he already has been uh has been being on worded to Lighthouse so that's been it's been very successful so yeah what was this process like um yeah sure um I think my personal experience um I think the process like would definitely be very different across te teams um for Lighthouse sorry so for Lighthouse um for joining Lighthouse I I I had a few chat with Paul and a Adrian from from ligh house um before the EPF finishes U we had a couple of chats just to talk about the future after EPF so it wasn't like a formal interview but it was like a conversation on like like what like what sort of things I'm looking for and in the longer term what's my goal like what I like to do and what they can offer me like what kind of work environment they can offer me and like just me asking questions on what team's like how people work um so it was it was like an interview but not like a formal interview like there was no technical questions I guess because I I was working with them like qu quite some time before that so it was mostly conversational and um yeah we had a good chat we had a few good chat um so transitioning was quite straightforward um with Sigma Prime um they made it really easy for me um it was basically the same after I joined my house I still work on the same thing um after EPF I still work on the same thing for like half a year or Year my PR got merged half a year later so um the transitional was really really smooth I have to say um and also because Sigma Prime operates in a very unique way um there was a a little autonomy in the team so transitioning from EPF to to Lighthouse member was quite straightfor it very similar but I just get to speak to people more often that's the main difference it's real nice I want to highlight again that like this really depends on a team uh there is you know 15 teams at this point each can uh do this differently but I think a general rule applies that where people work well in EPF uh they build this relationship with the the actual team and that it's easier to uh for a team to hire people because they um uh they already know what you're up to um yeah we get more pushes in the chat but kathia has been waiting so if you want to ask question yeah U uh I would love to follow up Ban's question what is going on on devet uh stage uh after you tested on crosis how it works for devet so what core developers do uh uh I mean comparing to crosis you don't run devet itself uh yes if I if I understand it right uh so what do you do just monitoring reading logs or maybe anything else am I clear or not yeah are you talking about the the process like the process of delivering a new Fork are you talking about like a dayto day-to-day work working on like an issue these defit one div two d three right right right so more like delivering a new feature or a new Fork um so usually um client teams start working on Fork individually on their own and then when we get to a stage as where we feel like it's mature enough confident enough to interrup with other clients um basically run multiple client in a single devet then then we start doing um like a bit of interrupt testing and at the beginning will probably be like a sort of like do compose where you have multiple um clients working like running locally on your machine do compose or ketosis and then when that gets like stable like we'll probably start doing some public div like what's happening with electroly right now we have sorry Petra right now is we have de DEET one DEET 2 um so those are public devet everyone have access to um so after local testing we get to devet public devet and we just keep iterating one two three and every every new Dev net there will be like new new things that we want to focus on for example if there's a new spec added then we will bring it on onto the next Dev net or if there was a bargain previous de they want to fix it before the next Dev net so it's like there there will be iterations of like Dev Nets um until we get to a stage where we feel like it's really mature we feel like it's ready to go on to those bigger bigger test net like um hosi and um zolia then we will schedule a for on those test net um before main deployment does that answer your question yeah exactly thank you uh if you're following ACD and the C and pectra uh Fork uh that's uh these definites are intended to uh to iterate on the uh on the upcoming fork and uh it's always it's always a discussion in ACD or should we deprecate the current devet one should we already move to devet 2 or but it's team is not ready and so on so you can if you follow the current discussion you can uh you can see what's happening and you can even run the fork of the client of the uh the pectra yourself you can try it on internet FY box great um and but this is this is a great segue to Dan's question who's asking about the uh current work in Lighthouse with the team is up to uh these days maybe which you which you are working on by yourself yeah cool um what's the team up to um I guess it's the same as every every other team um they actually multiple strings of work at the moment so um like people are working on different different initiatives so um for myself I've been mainly focused on pias um and also I spent a bit of time like just trying to make sure um just to help with our our Lighthouse releases so sometimes we'll be debugging looking into bugs sometimes I'll would be helping to preparing for the release um I spent a bit time in that as well like stabilizing CI um but um these two are the areas I'm focusing on there are also other other areas like Petra I haven't really spend much time Petra um there's also like things like other experiments like veral V tree and there's like client like there different streams of work and um people are working on different things so for myself I'm working on PS I wanted to say congrats on the release with the three states uh with the I think Michael was working on it it's been couple already but that's that's a great help uh like after Cancun with the blobs I was running out of SSD space and this this helps a lot so uh also like this client uh internal client performance improvements like that's it's a great thing um we have a question from George uh about how to use how to test uh p uh if you can maybe if you have uh been using uh have some to that and yeah I I haven't actually got to that so that's probably a question for for someone else um but I think there's probably instruction somewhere either in the consus spec um repo um it should be easy to find um if you need help finding it I can help as well yeah if youve been foll in the in the week six I want to say we had uh uh we had uh dive into the um uh the both execution and consensus specs um so let me send the link here uh there are some resources here if you watch the recording you can you can learn about it and uh also uh there is sh and Sam you can reach out to them if you have questions yeah sure thank you Maranda Jimmy thanks Mar I'm going to watch the recording as well yeah it's it's really cool yeah something I really like about the that like you know uh it really it really makes uh the ctiv look like real people that yeah you also have uh you you also have to U dive into a certain topic when there's something new for you and so on um yeah any other question folks any anything uh anything else for for J um if there is no question from audience I have a question maybe uh like we talked about the current work in Petra um so in like upcoming Fork whether it's pectra or maybe even like Osaka or something further like is there something that uh two things something that you were excited about that you are looking forward to and something that you are not so confident into something that you maybe don't like or not sure about yeah what do you think about the upcoming m um upcoming road map that's also very broad there a lot of things that could be interesting um even just scaling ethereum P this um stream is also we've also got a very long road map to go so um I don't know if I'm going to be working on this for the next two years but um at least for the time being I'll be working on this um if there's opportunity I I might work on something else but but I think at the moment I'm pretty excited about pias scaling eum increasing blob counts um other stuff um the lots of other stuff that interests me as well like epbs I want to learn about it as well I'm quite behind there's so much going on I don't know how many proposals there out there right now um seems like there's so many names I'm like like like struggling to to catch up so definitely lots of exciting things ahead um at the moment focusing on pz oh by the way I think the study group thing is really cool um actually that like I think all the presentation some of them has been on my on my on my list of things to watch for a while I've been slowly going through them um super useful um love it love it love it oh thanks so much Jimmy that's awesome I really appreciate that because uh yeah that that's that's really great to hear uh because you know uh most people watch the recording we don't have that direct feedback often so that's awesome especially on from cives like it's it's mostly fellows that don't watch sometimes fellows don't even watch it and point them out like I missed this presentation so it's really cool that it's I'm gonna I'm going to save this clip for people to to testimonials in the in the wiki that's great yeah thanks yeah cool um yeah it's definitely useful I I mean maybe maybe you don't have to watch everything but definitely pick out the topic that you're interested in like because we we all have limited time time and there's so many good resources out there sometimes you just have to pick the ones that you like um and definitely there a few that I'm interested in that list yeah yeah thanks Jimmy uh really nice to hear and uh yeah and thanks for the answer yeah P um p is definitely exciting um that's one thing that I'm also looking forward to as person running node hoping to have uh uh maybe easier bandwidth requirements but there was also um there was also some concerns Peter uh specifically about like how this affects stakers and people actually building uh block Builders right um yeah so so so um um yeah I'm not sure if I want to dive into dead rabbit hole if you guys have any questions like save me but uh um yeah talk about that actually yeah yeah please please do uh yeah yeah so I mean the the problem that that Peter mentioned is is a real problem um but it doesn't mean that no one's working on it um the um like like the EF research has been like working really hard to make it to make p and future block count increase feasible for um for people with smaller bandwidth so it's definitely something that um people are working daily daily on it and like people like Franchesco there like even if you look at the P design like all the numbers are based on the current 4844 numbers so we what what we're focusing on is trying to deliver something that maintain the same band with us today 4844 although future in the future we might be able to increase that but at the moment we're trying to maintain that however um the proposer bandwidth problem is is something that we're still working on um we don't have a like solution worked out yet but there are a few like Solutions potential solutions that people have like look into in the past I mean past one or two years they the their research group like um codex from status they've been like looking into how we could like limit the bandwidth requirements for for notes like there's definitely people researching on that um like people's full-time job and working on that and and also Michael from our team has some ideas on how we could um how we could distribute the block building um responsibility and delegate I mean not delegate but I mean like our sources to Super no like NOS with better resources rather than having hom steak having to struggle with building like big blobs so the these are things that are looking actually quite promising um on my end um we've been doing a bit of testing um once we have some results out like we definitely want to share with everyone else um but I mean that's a problem that people are trying to solve we're not going going to ship it without trying to solve those problems especially that I'm I'm in Australia like my bwth is really crap compared to the rest of the world um so it's something that definitely I care about personally selfishly yeah that's very awesome to hear that you think about this and you care about this as well um yeah that's awesome uh really really pulls me down thanks thanks Jimmy um yeah uh folks do we have any any other questions any follow up on this um it was it was interesting that you uh like one of the solutions to have like the heavy validators reminds me the rainbow taking UDS but uh maybe maybe we can ask about it later uh K do you have a question yeah always have a question uh what personal qualities or skills helped you to succeed during the EPF how do you think how do you feel about it um personal wise um I think I mean maybe like communication or or or learning or um yeah definitely like I think learning is something that I I work hard on um and I also like enjoys it communication is something I like to get better and but also I think it really helped helped me a lot as well trying to get trying to work with others being able to to write things down logically I think yeah yeah I think that's something that Mario and Josh has told us like very early in during the EPF face like being able to write things technically like write technical documents well and and explain things well it's a really good skill to have um yeah so I think that helped as well um whenever I'm digging into something I try to write it down and and if I find it it might be useful to others I'll try to like polish a little bit more and publish it and help others as well so I think like personal quality I think learning what learning and not giving up I guess that's like what I I feel like I'm better at and also just trying to do trying to take other people's advice like things like getting better at writing getting better with um working with others and don't be afraid to reach out people and don't be afraid to create a PR you might get to off for not doing things right but that's also a learning experience and just don't be afraid I have one question to Mario as well Mario how do you feel from cohort to cohort is it easier or uh harder more difficult U for participants to stay in the protocol because yeah we have more Learning Materials but the maybe the number of participants grows or maybe the teams are fully packed already how do you feel about um that's interesting question all thanks Jimmy for the answer I just wanted to highlight what Jimmy said there about like also learning to communicate and write uh if you want to check uh the EPF 3 uh repo you can find Jimmy's updates he had great updates uh this this weekly post so you can get some inspiration from that I wanted to want to recommend that um but about the about the uh uh the cohort um something that we discuss a lot because it's been changing for sure like the first cohort that we did the third one with Jimmy uh uh that was that was our first uh take on this and uh uh it went well uh but since then we wanted to always improve it in the previous Cort we had much more people uh we had more people than in this one and we realize it's actually too much uh not not not because like it wasn't necessarily bad uh but uh it felt bit overwhelming and it felt like we uh what we what we changed in this cohort is that there is less people who get the initial styen but we are hoping to have more permissionless people for example so just changing the this balance and not necessarily because teams are full it really depends the teams what we what we uh improved as well I believe in this C is that uh as you say the uh teams is not necessarily full but they might not be in the moment for hiring uh uh and that's really hard to funnel people to the right teams but we try to improve on this as well to get uh more project s suggested projects or mentors from these teams that actually need help uh but it's also uh on the teams to realize this uh so I think that the the one big Improvement was that we talked uh to all of the client teams since the cohort 3 they the EPF became more notorious thing they all all the client teams know what it is uh they know uh that oh this is fellow it's somebody that I can work with uh so so it became uh maybe easier in this way um but it's also it's also been changing like uh there's always with this with with changes there is always some new challenge so I think that each each cohort becomes a bit different challenging uh the study group was a big big change Improvement I think um yeah yeah so it's so so it differs but I don't want to ramble in this AMA we can check about is some other time we'll have bunch of bunch of other um bunch of other opportunities I want to give space to Jimmy and I think we have a question from Dan for Jimmy yeah I could also add to that as well um I think like in terms of teams feeling fully packed I think I feel like that's quite often the case um I I I don't feel like client teams are always actively hiring I think I see it more maybe this year but even like last year I I don't think we were actively hiring um but but we still had like really good like people from EPF that we ended up we ended up hiring um it's just like it feel it feel wrong not to hire so um I mean if you're really making a good contribution and um work really well with the team there's always opportunity somewhere so um I mean even if the team is not hiring just don't don't give up Jimmy's experience of getting hired before the court even finishes uh is very unique we had maybe like other two three people who experience the same uh that's that's more on the unique side but if uh the the fellowship is just something which gives you this connection to the team and even if they're not hiring right now maybe other team or maybe in couple of months uh some people from the cohor 3 get hired like in last couple of weeks maybe it can take a few months maybe it can take a year and depends on what people are interested in working on what what the teams are up to um so yeah um it like that's one thing that I have to mention here like I want to inspire you guys I want to motivate you but there is nothing guaranteed about the EPF it's all just this educational contribution program and uh it gives you a better chance to get hired somewhere eventually but uh yeah there is some guarantee it might take a might take some time um yeah um yeah I hope this makes sense um Dan did you do you still want to ask something or or any any other question we have last 10 minutes so I think we have a space for couple more questions yeah by the way I think I think if you survive until the end um it's it's it's all to me that's a success um like I think to be able to experience like the EPA program and the end a great experience and at the end like I think for epa3 we ended up having a inperson meet meet up in E Denver which was great EPF date was awesome um being able to meet other other fellow in the same C that was awesome um and like everyone just had really different strength um and I think most people like the people that I met with that were they were able to survive till the end they like there's just so much to learn from from them as well so I think being able to like if you if you can stay to the end then um I think to me that's that's a really good that's a really good success to me and like just the process of learning things and meeting others that's great um yeah that's awesome thank you so much thank you so much Jimmy for saying that because we had um uh yeah I actually let me pass the recap here we going have a picture from Denver on the bottom of the blog there uh it was it was great to meet in Denver to have this um uh to have the EPF in person like that's where we realized how important it is and we wanted to push this further like we did Brussels already uh this year uh but uh the main part will be Devcon in Bangkok where we hope to have it even bigger I suppose you will be there uh so uh you are definitely invited to EPF day and there will be other opportunities to hang out with the Fells so uh we definitely uh definitely looking forward to that I think it's a it's a great way to um to finish the the cord but we are just halfway there we have we are just currently in half halfway through the court so yeah um and yeah then wanted to ask about the eods and rainbow staking so if you maybe have any insight into this if you I'm sure if youve been diving into this topic if you have any any point of view from the client developer into the rainbow seing now I'm actually not familiar with it it might be a question for Mario sorry yeah I'm not taking any more questions I've been giving some feedback to Dan about eods thing recently and I I exhausted myself on that um yeah but it's basically this idea of having like so it's delegator uh you have uh basically delegated proof stake where um you have uh yeah uh where you have uh instead of the current just validator you have light and heavy validator uh where the heavy validator has more uh Hardware heavy duties the the light validator works with uh inclusion lists with um uh with uh like light stations so you can you can choose whether you want to have uh uh like whether you have lower bandwidth and so on or uh you are able to run the heavy one uh delegated by uh by another entity so um it's this new new proposal which has been discussed recently you know barnabi uh came up with the rainbow saking and I think it's interesting but it's uh big change or like many things to enshrine if you call it call it eods there it's it's a lot of things to enshrine in the protocol so I would be interested like from the client developer perspective like uh on the consensus layer like whether you find this too complex or or so because it's uh I think it's quite a lot of complexity and uh it's a lot of stuff to still figure out of course like it's not it's the proposal is not there yet but uh yeah be interested uh maybe maybe another time yeah I've got to learn about first um yeah but um definitely need to learn look into it um is there any political Fellowship project on this is anyone working on this on this call Dan is working on it so um yeah he cannot he cannot speak he having some trouble so I was hoping you can ask oh good I'll keep an eye on the project and me if you were fan of the of the uh study group here is a week page on it with all the resources so if you want to dive into this we have uh I think Dan is the main author of this thing so you can you can look into this nice when you feel like it this is great thanks yeah here he scrolling that's awesome awesome yeah um yeah cool um yeah thanks all guys uh do we have any other question we still have time any other questions for jimmmy anything anything else maybe uh something protocol related which is which is more uh more current topic you can touch on yeah I have a question about the protocol uh concerning of um data column API um could you could you a little bit comment this topic do we need it or not how do you feel it are you talking about the beacon API yes yes Beacon API so we discussed do we need to um to decate blobs API doing data column API right um yeah I think that that's a more specific question but the answer is quite short um we do need to keep the big The Blob API because that's what um the applications or or layer TOS used to fetch the blobs for from so the the G blob speaking API is definitely something we need to keep for um data columns we don't have any use case for that so there's currently no proposal to include that or add this API yeah thank you cool so maybe I can explore data cases use cases yeah if I find any cool e just as far as I know you have this interop medience right with the teams G defs sorry inter median yeah once a year or oh yeah um so yeah inter events um where like all the client team get together and spend some time together trying to solve some problem yeah it happens um I don't know I've only been to one so I think it happens every one and a half to two years um it's awesome um yeah just like it was my first time meeting a lot of people so um definitely enjoyed it um looking forward to the next one I think that's probably like one of the the things I I enjoy a lot um just like being at those inter interrup it was like really hard to for me to go away for like like leaving my family at home for more than a week but that's something definitely worth it um it was really good I mean the worst part for the lighthouse team or teu is the flight from Australia right like it's it's 30 hours always So the plan is to have the next interrupt somewhere in that region so uh it will be a revenge of Australians and we have to fly um yeah there's been this interrupts are like one maybe in one and a half year um it's something that is organized mostly by Tim and the protocol support team uh and we try to put everyone together but it it's like it's not uh like I say like it's one in once in a year or one and a half year but it's uh not that regular actually the idea is to have it in some strategic times like before Forks like uh the the one in Africa right now was uh uh focused on Electra on pectra uh so uh yeah before it was in a AA we've been working on uh the uh withdrawals Shanghai right uh post uh and and at every like bigger event like Defcon or def connect uh there is also uh this sort of interrup it's smaller it's like the normal interrup is one week but at the Defcon uh we have like one or two day L1 Workshop um uh where uh where most of the client teams meet and discuss some things as well um yeah so uh that's a similar smaller version of that as well um and uh that's also a reason why we are going to EPF day in Defcon by the way because it will be somewhat overlapping this L1 Workshop so bunch of the uh people from the client teams can visit you guys in the in the EPF day and maybe uh also some of you guys working with the client teams will be invited to the workshop uh yeah uh but that's that's the idea to have people on the yeah and um I see that uh Dan already opened uh post AMA thread in the Discord so um if there are any followup questions we are running a t of time here but if do you have guys any more question if you want to discuss something more you can do it in the you can ask in the Discord in the thread yeah um yeah we we already full hour yeah um yeah I'd say that like the in person meetings is definitely very impactful um things that that like there are sometimes decisions that we can't make like even after a long time online it's like when you meet in person you just like bam just make this decision straight away like so some sometimes people say that meeting persons like worth like six month of work um it's definitely very like a lot more impactful and yeah I look forward to meeting everyone at um Devcon this year yeah and thanks again for joining at this weird time no it's thank you so much for being here Jimmy I really appreciate you uh taking the time to talk to us especially uh this time zone and uh uh yeah it's been it's been great uh thank you so much Jimmy uh I believe that folks learned a lot and get inspired um if there are any followup questions we see you on Discord and uh but we'll see you in defco man looking forward to uh finally see you again yeah than than thanks so much um appreciate it that was really nice um yeah awesome awesome have a have a great day everyone have have a good evening Jimmy right thanks everyone thank you so much thank you bye