Next-Gen Trading Tech | ETHSofia 2025

[Music] Hi everyone. Uh before starting I just wanted to go a bit the audience and to know who is currently trading the crypto markets. Okay, let's say about half and who is interested into starting trading crypto markets who is obviously not trading yet. Okay, great. So uh as a first question also to answer a bit to the talk that uh we just heard where uh we're speaking about holding versus trading.

I I just wanted to have each of you your opinion about this like obviously here we speak about trading. Why for you it's better to trade rather than to buy and hold?

I would say here that uh there is this misconception that trading is something you can do on the side. Um and uh for most people they have to understand that trading is is a full-time job and they have to have a certain skill. It's not just picking so to say pristine assets. um that uh in crypto don't return any revenue and don't generate any revenue outside of Ethereum. Um so people who just uh try to trade and consider trading as something they can do in their free time as a hobby um they wouldn't succeed.

uh and uh I think that's that's the greatest misconception and uh the greatest trap that something in crypto in investing can can actually fall into. So for most people who doesn't have time buy and hold would be better but for people who wants to be serious about it trading could be

yes or that there would be some cases where you can buy something and hold it and combine it with other trading products that are fully passive, fully automatic nextgen trading uh products uh and services that actually connect those two pieces together so you can have the best of both worlds. Basically,

for me, I never trade. I work at a trading company and I would never dare trade. Um, when you work in institutions, you kind of see the other players. You see what it takes to be a profitable trading company and it's enormous amounts of work. And yeah, just think about it what kind of companies you will be trading against because on every trade there is somebody on the opposite side and there is a poker saying if you don't know who the idiot on the table is, you are the idiot.

So yeah, be vigilant and be very very careful. I personally wouldn't do it. On my side, I would say that it essentially links to who you are as a person or your your status at the moment that you decide what to do. If you have sufficient money, like a lot of money, you probably will decide to stay on the side and do the long-term investing and not bother investing on a daily basis or you know just just day trading or swing trading. Whereas, if you want to build an income for yourself, you will be more tempted to go into the trenches so to say.

So it's either it has already been decided for you in one way or it's more of a psychological need that you need to be up there and you know and fight with the trend and to learn and to show that you are able to do it. So it's pretty simple if you are to decide about this. You analyze your situation currently and you see what you can do and um as mentioned I agree that it cannot really succeed as a hobby. you have to give it your all or you just maybe realize that you just want to have fun with it like going to a casino maybe and you will just maybe have some additional um I don't know sparks in your life or some additional money or not at the end of the day but it's pretty much decided from the beginning what type of investor you should be that's my point

and how how can you know yourself before trying

well you you you you will look inside your pocket do do I have a lot of money I will go the long way and I will keep it you no light, I will make the money, no problem. But if I'm trying to build some sort of little wealth for me, you probably will be more tempted to go inside and fight for that because you cannot really wait until the trend comes your way or until you make let's say the 200% of your portfolio in six months when you believe you'll be able to do it on a shorter term.

Okay, we can dig about it after like also psychological risk but before maybe it's good if uh because you all trade in a different way. So can you just give a quick like one minute or one minute and a half uh explanation of your way of trading but more interestingly why do you trade this way and on another way? So I can continue. I've seen for myself that I cannot go the professional route. I simply cannot.

So I've decided to stick to a few swing trades a month. Leave it open for a couple days or if I want to have fun I will just try sculping. This works the best for me. I've had, you know, trial and error a couple times. I've seen it.

I don't want it anymore because it will just, you know, it will start to backfire against you if you don't meet your right uh your right style of trading. So, yeah, I try to keep it on a minimum. And it's also, you know, that that principle like the more you trade, the more you do it against yourself. Try to find the right entries for a couple trades. Let them run.

If they go against you, cut them. But if they go your run, let them play out and you will have sufficient money and you will make more money from four trades than you'd have made from 25 probably.

And what do you use for entry point or what do you use some tools or

Well, your feeling

with the tools um I've also sort of given up because the the assets that I trade are ones with generally sufficient liquidity to not impact or to not require an extremely fast decision. So anything that you have for example on Binance or you have on on OKX or on buy that you're able to add some leverage to it. You can do two per two two weeks or 3x leverage and you can have a decent um retracement analysis or you can time it up with some news or with following the trade and uh the the trend dimension sorry and you will be able to make some money for yourself like you'll be able to you know to to check a bit every time you do it and you'll be able to be profitable on on the long run if you if you just keep it on the low. Um for tools I just you know news coin market cap some charts um daily hourly and 30 minutes depending on how much I want to let it run and at times I try to temper myself and just to wait for a retracement um back on the on a lower point. So I trade only with algorithms 100% automatically because of what blog said in the previous talk market has changed in that way that rallies and increases in prices is shortlived.

There are plenty of instruments um and plenty of new coins uh being brought up uh as we speak um getting attention these weeks. It's it's after uh few months uh afterwards will be something else that uh happens uh when you sleep. So you don't have the time to look at the chart to place the trade. Uh you don't the declines happen very quickly. Um so uh price only um stays for a couple of days at elevated points.

So basically in this is the perfect area for algos for algorithmic training for for fully systematic approach because it removes all of your emotions and it relies on mathematical models that have worked in the past and have high probability of working um now too. So basically um what I'm not very um fond of with with people who have these thesis for only long-term investing is that um they should realize there are a lot of hobby players casino-minded people in crypto. Those are players that alos play against. Those are the food for algos uh and for what we do. And I believe that um um the the sophisticated investor in crypto would be and will have to be a person who has the mindset of an allocator.

Meaning you don't need to to pick the certain assets to be successful. You can structure a portfolio um in crypto with both holding assets and picking the right instruments for example algorithmic systems uh funds etc that can be stacked together because crypto is is financial and and this is something we can do. I mean we can uh you can have your bitcoin, we can trade on top of it with algorithms, you can stack those returns the way it is stacked with defy with with with state uh ether that is looped etc etc. So basically this is what the um sophisticated investor can learn to do. This is what I what I do and what we try to uh offer to a lot of people and and I believe this is this is the future and this is where most returns will be made in the future not just buy and hold not just hobby trading but combining both those approaches in a more professional way by using professional

how long did it take you to bulv those algorithms I mean was

well it's been it's been a 20 year old journey

so so you use your knowledge from the traditional markets in

basically I've been on the market since 2006. So I've I've been in crypto since 2013 and um um ever since 2017 2018 it started with the perpetual futures with the derivatives markets where the largest volume is now being done being done in crypto. um it is something that actually has evolved and is now suitable for algorithmic trading in general. So trading tech has advanced quite a lot and uh that's why it's very fruitful for a lot of people to to take advantage of this casinominded people and

and can you just quickly explain briefly like your algorithms how do they trade like is it following the trend or some specific uh

yeah so so we have mostly two type of algorithms ones are those that try to capture momentum um when um price increases very quickly or declines very quickly. Uh so those are the the momentum expansion the volatility expansion points uh in the market. Uh the other types are the mean reversion ones where uh think think of it as buying the dips or selling the ribs when um when an asset is in a bull market or in a bare market. So basically those are um very um used approaches in traditional markets. There is a lot of scientific research about those models that are being transferred between different asset classes from commodities to stocks to ETFs to indices.

Now crypto too and crypto is the perfect uh soil for this because there is a lot of volatility a lot of stuff that uh that can be taken advantage of of those type of systems. So basically it's it's a portfolio of different approaches that tend to work well when combined in a team.

Do you know what did they do today? Your algorithm.

Yes. Yes. Today we are up. Yeah. Today we are

so short.

Yeah. We we are 2% up. That's what we were joking that uh um we don't just uh uh try to to just place trades etc. So it it works uh 100% automatically and works in in both directions.

Then

yeah to continue on this um kind of what trading companies and how they make profit for us as well. We are a market maker. We are neutral. We don't take long or short positions. But uh yes volatility is amazing from one side.

You see these opportunities because when you do high frequency trading, you usually have the infrastructure that it takes uh to offer that service to offer market making uh is extremely fast and those moments of chaos when everything starts breaking apart, exchanges slow down, you know, nobody really knows the price of the asset, you can make a lot of money. Um so yeah this is how we trade Draven. We are a market maker and absolutely automatically systematically it's almost no user input. Of course, there are some configurations and around that, but uh yeah, the crypto market is great. And I I have a question uh actually if there are companies that offer these products for uh let's say retail investors um that they would like to use these strategies, why would why wouldn't the companies themselves deploy these strategies and gain um all the profits from themselves?

Yes, because um most of uh the companies in crypto, we have institutional clients too. Um the thing is that most people in crypto they they are the uh want zero risk like only focused on the yield side. That's why there are a lot of people in DeFi. They want the perception that their collateral doesn't go down. And there are the other um type of crypto investors who want to capitalize on insider information on front running everybody like VCs and trying to dump everybody.

So it's basically um um a competition between strategies uh which one has uh the most advantages for the given investor. So basically there are um funds of funds which invest in us um and try to diversify their approach uh that they have with arbitragees with VC uh rounds that they have invested uh but uh for most people they they have a certain approach they are doing uh uh their investing and uh um and they have their bias uh to say the least. I mean um a person who has done arbitrage and market making all uh all its life would have difficulty seeing and experiencing volatility in its portfolio of let's say 20 25%. It just a mental psychological thing that that you have to adapt yourself to um and not everybody is willing to. Yeah.

And ju just for market making. So you both do market making but in different ways you it's for trading it's for helping liquidity. Uh can you just explain quickly to people what is market making because it's it sounds like a big word but maybe nobody knows what is actually is about.

Well market making yeah it's been around since electronic trading. Uh so your 80s 90s the moment the exchanges move to electronic trading and it's basically providing liquidity in the order book. You place your orders and you hope to God that you are you're not getting hit by somebody with a proprietary strategy that is smarter than you, has a more kind of forwardlooking pricing perhaps. And yeah, it's a it's it's this it's picking up pennies in front of a steamroller basically. Um and yeah, uh there are two I think major distinguished you know market making companies.

One of them are your Optiviver, J Street, um, SitStec that really focus on trading, make a lot of money from trading. And also on top of that, you have your strictly business deals with um, um, exchanges with token listings and other uh, how can you how can you make money by by providing liquidity?

Oh yeah. Uh, one of the main things is the spread. So you're quoting a spread if you I mean there is this I think misconception that you kind of know the price and you're quoting around the price. What what's really important for market making is that you get you know even flow on both sides on both sell and buy and the more venues you trade obviously that becomes easier. Um but the the essence of it is your spread and of course the arbitrage opportunities happen during high volatility.

Everybody's panicking. You have the fastest infrastructure and you just snipe very good deals on a very good price and yeah, as long as you find a way to hedge it as fast as possible, you realize immediately again. And this is why most market makers when they look at their um nav, it's a slow up uh it goes slowly up to the right and it's it's very nice. And as you mentioned, we don't have these drawdowns. I don't know what's going to happen if we we see a 10% draw down in our net asset value.

But yeah, this is why we are market neutral to

understand you. You both sell and buy at the same time to other participant of the market who wants to buy or sell. You are the counterparty and you hope that you are you do it at the same time. So you are not exposed to the movement.

Um no of course this would be you know perfect hedging instantly hedging and when you do that you pay a lot to to hedge. Usually what happens is you if your pricing model is good, the flow will will hit you automatically on a roughly balanced. So at any point uh if you're not up, you can see just as much buy volume as as sell volume and you'll be roughly neutral. Of course, you that doesn't always happen as a market maker. You are fundamentally against the market.

When the market starts moving in a way, you are there to provide liquidity. you are the liquidity. So very often you would find yourself on the wrong side of the move. So then how you manage your risk, how fast you decide to hedge in different situations is extremely important. And this risk management is what keeps you alive and um doesn't kill you from just positional losses

and and you at Vortex is different kind of market making. Um at Vortex we focus on one way of market maker of market making which is using the client's uh funds entirely not deploying the stable coins ourselves and this one translates to um you know making money if the client make makes money and if the normal trader makes money. For example, if the price um you know um is rising due to some performance from the company, due to the news, due to the trend, we will also make money and the client would also make money because we will be able to liquidate a bit of that when we are deploying the liquidity on the other side on the seller side. So as market maker ideally you make the road and the trading experience fairer for everybody. So they are you know um insured against uh bad actors and stuff like that.

Now there's also another model of market making which is the loan model in which you deploy your own funds and you get the loan from the client in the tokens. So this is one of the more riskier sides of market making and the one which is usually hated but also loved by the community because this is the one that people believe that makes and pumps the prices. What it means is essentially that you get their tokens at a certain value but you are required to return them just in their um essence not in the value. So for example you get the tokens worth 10 million but you can return them at half a million. You've executed your mandate and it's totally fine where where that money has gone well who knows maybe you dumped maybe you didn't.

This is one of the more riskier sites. But market makers in general, they work under um imperative and explicit mandates both from their client and also with the law. So it's extremely difficult for them to do something bad and to not be repercussions. Now if we go into the bigger players, um of course as in any business, you know, if we're talking billions and hundreds of millions, um everything becomes a fee. So they can play however they want.

If they want to play, you know, with with the reputation and stuff like that, if they abide, you know, just to to pay a fee, a settlement five, 10 million, some of them maybe will go to such risks and you know, trade against the the interests of the client. But with us, this, you know, is out of the question and we have a a separate model to that which, you know, does not allow us.

Okay. So, you you you trade all of you differently. If someone wants to trade the same way that you do, where should they trade like where is the best liquidity, security and so on and and what journey should they take on like if they want to to trade the way you trade? So to build algorithm what do they have to do? What do they have to learn?

So basically um the first rule that one should uh follow is to know what uh to to know thyself as they as they put it. Um so they should know what are they very interested in. So if they have um quantitative approach to markets so if they like numbers and probabilities and they want to have this approach applied to to the markets then definitely algorithms are for them. Um but unless they want to take this road uh then um they can uh they can start looking at services or products that utilize those algorithms. Um that's what we offer some we we work with Binance we work with by bit where uh there are the largest deepest markets in terms of crypto futures um because those are the markets that attract the most volume not spot uh and uh and they attract the casino minded people.

So they attract a lot of the fish in the pond to say the least and um and and yes every trader should look for inefficiencies. So market making all those mathematical models they're looking uh to those inefficiencies between um the bid and the ask and uh and that's what they want to capitalize without taking uh much risk. Every trader should define the amount of risk they're willing to take and should find a model u that utilizes this amount of risk they're willing to take uh in order to find the best risk adjusted return for for for this amount of risk and then yeah they should they should find the best way to do it. Some uh some are choosing the manual path. Um and with time I see less and less people trying to to go the manual path like manually trading financial markets.

Uh but but there are still some. So um uh to wrap it up, I think uh people should uh just dig deep um and think what they want out of markets. uh if how much risk they want uh what is the approach that they would like to use and um if if at some point they see that uh something uh um is not like what they expect they should try to see whether whether or not they can combine it with some professional products or services

but you are on the market for 20 years someone who just starts they can't do what you do so Yes.

Of course, I mean it's a learning curve. Yeah, definitely a learning curve. But um it's not a very steep learning curve. So um the steepest learning curve is in the psychology. Uh because 20 years is not just about uh the skill of learning how to code, how to structure a system.

Actually most of my systems are like uh one system is like 10 15 lines of code. So so nothing complex but um um just trying to to have the patience uh to sit this out to um to know what you have to do in hardship times etc is something that that you learn with time and only with time. So, so basically if you want to become a trader, you should uh uh start working on your patience.

And should you become a trader because you want to make money or because you like trading and

Well, both both.

But if it's only for money, can you become

Yeah, you can do you can you can definitely do but it will be harder for you when when hard uh times uh come by. Yeah. So if someone wants to do market making the way you do, is it accessible for anyone or you really need a structure like you do like all those robots and

oh man there is

and where do you do it? Actually also

there is so much infrastructure required in order to do this without getting absolutely eat and it's the markets are a shark tank and it's um it's extremely difficult. Obviously new market makers are coming out. Our company is you know a startup. We are 15 people. Uh we are competing with the biggest name.

So it's not impossible in any stretch of the imagination. But uh my advice would be if you want to do this uh it's a good way of making money. Um sure. But if you it's a very special kind of job. It it takes a certain type of person to work 60 hours a week.

and when the times get bad to keep and push through. And to to do that, you need to tap into some very internal drive in order to to push through and succeed. Um, so yeah, in my opinion, test it, check it out. Does it work for you? Uh, from my experience, you have to be quantitative in nature.

You have to enjoy mathematics. It's going to be very difficult for you to do it in any other way. But um yeah, there are a lot of other ways to make money as well. So don't jump into it if you're not sure.

Well, on my side, I say to operate these markets, you just got to to prepare your best two assets. I'd say, you know, your mind and your heart. Your heart generally will become harder and harder. It will become like a rock. So you have to prepare to make it soft again.

So in terms of you know of being prepared for this in terms of you know what to invest what tool to have you just have to keep sharpening these two your brain and your heart because they will converge in how you play the market in u what profit you are satisfied with this is the number one problem when you see you've made in one day $500 in another 1,000 in another 5,000 and then you make only 100 you will go crazy probably and when you learn to temper that that's when you've accomplished the first lesson so to say. So there are more and more lessons like these and these are the harder ones not necessarily the technical ones which you know I mean we've all done school we've been through a college we've had maths physics we've done computer science you can uh you know you can champion that but the real ones are within you and these are the ones that will receive most of your time and most of your money if we are to talk about you know some specific tool that you want to have I don't know I I mean this isn't a traditional market, but I really liked the Bloomberg terminal. You know, it's like $25,000 a year, $2,000 a month. It's genius. It's extremely well to execute transactions.

Now, if we're talking to crypto, the more riskier it gets, the more you will need such tools. And these tools, you know, will be required for pairs ideally with low liquidity. This is the moment where you will have to, you know, to to have quick decisions. you will have to have everything prepared with the bots with the algos whereas you know in the in in the deep liquidity markets in the big exchanges it's pretty much done for you to just have a smooth ride and enjoy it I wouldn't say you need that much of a preparation initially but you can add it up later after you've championed a few principles and that and after you've learned to live with yourself and with how you want to operate the market after that you can just um automatize it and you just let it open you make $50 a day, 100, 200, it goes up, it goes down, you still make money. But the problem is within you.

Um, when you have when you probably know that if you have come more aggressive, you would have made 20 times that money. When you, you know, when you learn to let that go, you will be able to make money, you know, all sides possible. So the common point since the beginning of the talk none of you has uh spoken about a method or a technique or tools or whatever but you know every time when we ask people about trading they are all asking oh how do you trade explain me how show me how but you don't speak about it uh and the people I speak about I speak with some people about trading and they none of them speak about the their method they all speak about risk and and emotions and management of your psychology why I mean so trading is not about the methods you can trade the way you want or or if you are good in risk management it's okay or what is the correct recipe

generally yes you will be able to make money any way you trade is the problem with how you lose it and what you do after you lose it I mean you know even if you don't know about trading you place five trades you lose three in the other two you make profit you make 10 times your bank what do you do after I mean somebody will explain you their method and you will replicate it but you will just lose it and it's is the journey with managing, you know, what you get. I mean, you you could get the best tours, you could get the best car, you could get a nice Land Rover and and you'd go on the mountain and like you you see the guys going over those, you know, abrupt cliffs and you try to do it yourself, but you don't know exactly how to operate that. And somebody will give you, you know, some lessons, but you have to be with him. You have to see him flip over a couple times. You have to get his heart, his courage to do it again.

and to be resistant to the damage he gets inflicted. So, you know, the money will come, you know, like that that that that meme on Tik Tok, the money will come. You just have to learn

more how to keep it, how to keep it and how to keep doing it. You will you will make the money. You will make the money not 100%. But you will operate against you most of the times. So that's you know it's like a boring point but it's the real point.

It's you know general rule of life.

Is it why you went in algo emotions?

Yes. Basically u this is a very very solid point. So trading like life is a continuous process and it is a process fueled with a lot of uncertainty. So you basically have to try to have a mindset that everything is um like thinking in bets. So thinking in probabilities you have to have a certain approach to your capital so you can save it and as Valentine pointed out you have to survive.

So this is the first rule of compounding in general. So you survive with a lower draw down um uh smaller recovery period for uh for all those losses etc. So to do this you have to have the right mindset. You have to not play against yourselves because most of the time uh with trading um you um uh you have small wins. You're picking pennies in front of a steamroll.

So, so basically you you're um you may succeed in certain times but then you make very costly mistakes because um several things happen at once and you and you keep on making mistakes because one mistake provokes the other etc etc and you um and you overwrite your process etc etc. So basically you have to have the right mindset first. Uh and then uh you got to have the right tool set. But the tool set is more with the um with the skills and with the um and with the knowledge about how markets work uh what what doesn't work. Uh that everything is uh is uncertain.

Uh so there are a lot of abstract things. And what does it mean to have the right mindset because it's you know it's a word but concretely what you will advise to someone who can't keep up with their losses or what what should they do if they want to

patience patience humility um um thinking in bets like thinking calculated uh uh risks and and and and thinking that the largest loss uh is is always expecting you. So it's always expecting you. That's what happened that that's what we've seen with financial history that all of the great models uh all of the great funds noble lower in economics that have been doing amazingly riskadjusted returns like um no no loss of of of principle have collapsed. So basically you you got to have this um very um riskmanagement type of approach to life and to have this humility and patience to overcome those hardships.

Okay.

Yeah.

And then we go to questions.

Absolutely. Very quickly to answer how to get started. There are a lot of educational material online. So even in YouTube there are channels that are quantitative in nature that are going to teach you how to price options. how to or at least teach you the models and how people approach pricing options.

And then what you do is you very well know these models. You go and you try them. Of course, don't trade with real money. Try paper account. See what's going on.

Try to do some simulation. But uh there are a lot of resources Martin Lopez a lot of books uh and maybe not that's maybe not a good recommendation to go into as first books but you can find a lot of recommendation online on Reddit etc. Just grab the papers, read them, try to understand them. Use LMS. They're very good.

You can give them the whole PDF. You can ask them questions because it's very dense usually the research papers, but you can kind of understand them. It's use AI. It's really helpful for those things. And try to implement something.

Write some code, write some simulation, see how it's how it's worked. Uh you know, back test it. Just go and build. Is there some community of people on Discord or whatever where you can discuss this kind of thing or or you're alone on your on your own?

Uh I'm not really familiar. We are kind of trying to build a community of Draven. Uh we will see how that goes. But there are for sure communities online that do this. But go read and build.

Just start. And the moment you start, you see what the issues are and that will give you ideas. Okay, how do I solve this issue? And then you move forward and forward and then you read more papers and then you get more ideas and more ideas. Oh, I remember this was an issue and this guy solved it like this and you get good.

So it's a long long journey. It's

yeah something I will add on uh here very quickly is that first a person should uh get educated on the financial instruments uh and how they differ from from one another because um uh for example it's very diff it's very different uh um trading options than trading futures than trading spots uh or combining different uh um uh different strategies that involve all those in the same strategy. Uh and uh if somebody learns how the market actually works, what every instrument uh does and what it offers for for for what it is uh um purposeful, then um it can just go deep the rabbit hole as as Danny pointed out like finding a community, reading the papers, uh trying to find out strategies uh with those um type of instruments and just uh yeah see for himself whether it works.

Uh do we have any questions? Yes. you have something I would say here that we don't look too far into the future. um we take uh things step by step because there is a lot of inherent in uncertainty in markets. So basically windows of opportunity open up with with every new technology.

Uh so you you got to know the essentials of how markets operate, how participants operate, uh what are the driving factors of of price in general because most people don't know how price actually moves. Um so I truly believe that the that whatever trading tech there is there there would still be people who try to uh guess the future u by some type of instrument by some type of technology. Um and uh for me I don't try to think that that far ahead into the future because uh I always know that I'll have to adapt anyway. Do we have time for another question?

Yes, we have.

Yes, we have time for one more question. So, um let me choose. Um so, the question was, is leveraging the only way for trading?

Um helps a lot. If you're winning, you win more obviously. uh the bad things happen in the fat tails where you get liquidated and this is I mean we spoke uh we mentioned a few times risk management when you're using leverage that's uh you cannot go wrong one one step and you're out but uh obviously using leverage on a success it's it's capital efficiency if everybody else in the market is using leverage and you're not using leverage you're not capital efficient and is very difficult to compete.

Let me tell you something about leverage that most people get very wrong. So leverage is something very beautiful if you know how it works because um leverage doesn't increase risk necessarily uh because I'll give you an example. Uh if we run a strategy on crypto futures, we can have a high risk adjusted return profile of the strategy with 25% of the exposure of the capital of the principle. So basically at any time we have like 25% invested in the market and due to the um um interop interoperability of of crypto and with wallets and and with the stacking of of different products and services we can utilize the other 75% in something else. So basically we can control um volatility.

We can have exposure to uh to certain right tail events certain very big increases in price and at the same time we can um we can be in defi uh and and this is all thanks to leverage um and at the same time have a very low risk profile. So basically it doesn't mean that um you always have to uh do the usual case where you have 100 units of capital and you open a position of 300 units uh which is the the most often case. So basically you have to know what you're doing and that's why I I always uh um um I'm a proponent of of people learning u the instruments because if you learn what leverage and margin actually is you will know that it serves a certain purpose uh in certain situations where you can have big advantage at

strong points and really really true. Now to touch on a point on leverage. Well, when a pair receives leverage, it means it's a trusted pair. It means it's more secure and it means it generally has enough liquidity that it will not, you know, get rugged. I mean, ideally, and it like nothing bad should happen to that.

That's why it's allowed to gamble, you know, to to to trade on these on these um higher marks. the ones without leverage, these are the ones uh subjected to even more risks. Um be it time risk until somebody you know reverses the trend or you know just running with the liquidity. So you know for those pairs which are more secure leverage has been added so you can effectively benefit from them. So leverage should not be something to scare you.

Of course, if you do it the crazy way, if you do 50x leverage and you want to let it open for three days, maybe some bad news are coming. But if you want it for three minutes, you will make your money. If you want for a couple hours, 3x leverage if you want, I don't know, maybe more, 2x, just adapt it. But leverage is seen as a good way. It comes as a, you know, a as a green mark on the asset that you're trading.

It's true what you said. Leverage is a riskmanagement tool. If instead of buying $10,000 of spots that can go to zero and you lose 10,000, you can leverage 10x deposit just 1k in the worst case you lose your 1k and that's also it could be your stop loss and yeah people don't think about it.

Yeah, it's making it like the asymmetric uh market little um stake high returns and generally you know crypto is is is the the most asymmetric market there is. I mean the gains have been colossal. No other market has seen something like that.

Another question or

we don't have time for questions.

Thank you so much guys. [Applause] [Music] Heat.