Bitmark: Property rights for the digital environment | Taipei Ethereum Meetup #2017-1

there's not a system that can keep track of who has what such that the lawyers and the business people are able to figure out what belongs to them so this is the classic case actually quite a scary case so Amazon had a problem with say publisher had a problem with Amazon and the publisher said Amazon you do not have rights to distribute that evil and Amazon said ok and so Amazon went into the Kindles of everyone that bought a book and deleted the book it gave them the money back and you might say it's ok they got their money back but if you step back for a moment and think about this if you went in what a book from the bookstore and the book store let's say something sunni and went to your house broke into your house and took the book off your bookshelf and left some money for you on your table with a note saying sorry we didn't have the rights to sell you this book we're taking it back you do like this is like this is crazy that's not this is not right yet in the digital world for some reason Amazon so Amazon is a company in the United States and the United States is kind of built on this notion of private property like they say like like your home is your castle nobody can come in your home and so you have this this company that thinks nothing wrong with doing this so where does this come from why is Amazon okay with deleting things that are in your digital home but not okay with deleting things that's in here real and the reason is said you have different types of property and this goes back hundreds of years to when property first was created in the UK the first type of property was land and individuals so farmers were in arguments with the king and the queen and the church about who could own land and farmers started fencing in there and that a very long time but over hundreds of years the government was forced to deal with this and they created the notion of individual private property came out of land a similar thing happened for knowledge so patents trademarks copyrights similar similar thing happened patent was originally a monopoly that the Queen granted to her friends so you can have a patent for tobacco a patent for shipping in wasn't for writing software and so real property intellectual property both of these became massive massive asset classes generated a lot of wealth for individuals software pharmaceutical all of these these industries would not exist if it was not for intellectual property and land ownership a lot of the wealth in this world would not have existed if land could not be owned by individuals so what does fit mark what do we believe we believe that data is the next big asset class from land to knowledge to data and that just like in land just like in data you want the individual to own their data and if that happens we'll have a big economy so what is bit more do we do three things first convert your data into property ok when something is property it has rights it can be legally protected so number two we hope you protect it so both legally and using encryption and number three is to give you some ways that you can sell your data sell your stuff ok so what is a bit mark you can think of a bit mark like a digital property title and you probably don't know that a proper title is when you buy a home you get a deed to your home and that deed usually stays with the bank it says hey this is yours when you buy a car you get a title for the car and so you take it to the DMV if if I sell you my car you take that title to the DMV they replace my name with your name and now you own this from the legal perspective so our block chain stores titles and transfers of titles it's very simple no scripting language dumb contracts only the idea is that it keeps track of who has what property so you have a fingerprint that's just a hash of the data some metadata so what is the data who so whatever you want it's it's it's a arbitrary key value pairs the account owner so these are at two five five one nine keys and a digital signature okay what data can you bit mark alright so this is something that's kind of fun I'll talk a bit more about who we're sort of rolling our product out with but we're really focused on health data Fitness data location data things that as an individual you might think doesn't have much value but there's a lot of institutions that really love to have this data either they use it for research purposes right so on the phone we can get some you're a bit mark software it can get access to all of your healthcare stuff we also work with this company in the United States called if if this then not heard of them or not but any data so if you have a new post to Instagram you can save that photo to Dropbox and so we can make it to where you can bit mark that photo you can claim it as yours and you can sell okay so a whole bunch of different types of data that you can say is yours establish ownership tell the world this is mine and create scarcity if you want so maybe you want just five of these or maybe you want five million is up to you we we think of what we're doing is trying to create a more healthy digital environment where things like the property rights of this data that us as individuals are generating is respected people right now we give our data away for free to Facebook and Google and companies like that and we think we get stuff for free you know we get to use facebook for free but what we don't know is that they're using our data they're selling it to advertisers we don't know what they're using it for how they're manipulating us and we don't get any money from that and you can say oh it's just my data it's not really valuable what Facebook is worth hundreds of billions of dollars literally and the reason they're worth that much is because of your data so in most things if if like Foxconn was making a phone for Apple and Foxconn goes to the other suppliers and say hey you know we'd like you to give us these screens and these CPUs and the memory for free because it's cool distributers you're going to get publicity the suppliers would say screw you Foxconn no way alright so there's something very strange about the world we live in where individuals give our value away for free to these companies that then take it and sell right Apple has to pay a price for the components that they use in their phone Facebook doesn't pay a price for the data that they use that comes from you added that value so data this is the next big asset class land knowledge data this is a huge asset class and individuals need property rights to this now okay so Chris we're gonna have Chris show you a demo of how how the peer-to-peer network works okay and then we can take questions is that okay yeah but it would go quite into a minute to decide outside okay the other character so while this is booting up a little more so how many of you in this room are software engineers how many of you in this room are working on something related to blockchains so the rest is just like you're interested or what yeah how many of you will work for banks or finance just just you and you yes I think you walked in just as I finished the last lives but we so so we didn't build a blockchain and look for a problem we had a problem and it turned out that blockchain was the right solution and so we've been building for a bit more than two years and like at that time blockchain was two words it was blocked and chained and nobody really knew it was it was just like you know uhm it was part of what made Bitcoin work and we were huge fans of Bitcoin and we had this problem this really specific problem in that um how do you transfer ownership of digital assets so like you have a Facebook account and have a Twitter account you have ebooks you have music how do you give these to people so myself I was um my wife got pregnant I was having a kid she was having a kid but and I didn't do any work it was easy and I really started thinking about okay these assets who owns them like how do you you know how do you pass them on to you know to future generations and what I um since realized is that you don't own them like you as individuals you don't own this it's kind of like renting or leasing the you know the books you have are not yours your Facebook account is not yours Facebook can delete it the photos you put on flickr when you die they terminate so we started asking ourselves okay well what how could we change this how can we make it to where individuals have ownership have agency over the stuff that they create if you take a picture it's yours but if you take a picture and put it on Instagram it's theirs like why is that that's crazy I mean we figured this stuff out like 200 years of democratizing bookid on what and then in the internet now we don't anything at all and so for us it was if you try to go to a government and say hey I want you to register all of the Instagram photos they look at you like you're insane but if you said okay well if you want to allow individuals to register photos so they could talk about who owns what and keep track of that stuff how would you do it you could do it as a central database but then you rely upon one company to control all that stuff and so we said it would be interesting if we could take the underline technology of Bitcoin and generalize that so it's not just money but the property and we actually built the first few prototypes on top of Bitcoin but it turned out to not so good for that which we can we can ask do we even have the Meccan water techmo stuff they're on but I think sort of the social implications are that so we were trying to file some in the early days when we were developing some of this stuff and it was like $15,000 to work with a patent lawyer in the US and then once you patent something you then need to patent it in 27 different countries which is insane I mean that's a crazy amount of money and it's ridiculous because um right now everything is global anyways so the blockchain systems are interesting because they're the first type of infrastructure that can actually span countries and as long as two individuals want to exchange something of value you don't need a third one to tell them they Canada cannot so that's that's really interesting all right you mean like why wouldn't ya yeah so if you look at it and this kind of goes back to my point about Foxconn versus Facebook right so Foxconn has to account for the components there's a real cost there's a there's a ball if you guys have that hardware you know you know what have build materials of all right Facebook doesn't have to account for Facebook doesn't have a ball but if you think of the film in terms of Facebook that's all you people like it's all the people that use Facebook so um these companies that are operating in these digital networks they benefit quite a bit from having a bad accounting right we're not all the value is actually in the economy and so um so first off it's really early it's really early like in this kind of blockchain digital asset space but then second of all like for the big people right now at least you're asking to change their business moments which is perhaps like the hardest thing to do for a company yeah company can fit so the reason banks come into this room is because of blockchain Burbank is it incremental technology it doesn't change their business model Bitcoin aetherium well that changes their business so banks can embrace blockchain but they cannot embrace bit right because bitcoin is a different business model block chains not in a business there's nothing new about long what train is digital signatures distributed Ledger's those have been around since the 80s 70s at least right but this idea of being able to exchange value without intermediaries that's that's that's different and so these people that act as intermediaries the Facebook's the ghouls and even even out they'll be slow to the braces here's a question yeah fly piper danger sure so actually we're trying to get our protocol in diaper ledger why hyper ledger my previous company we are working on an open source mobile phone and so I know some of the people at the Linux Foundation I respect the Linux Foundation I think they're very reputable they do good work there's these consortiums and the consortium helps because it helps to drive standards it helps to kind of have some base level language to talk about what's going on and so you could look at like the financial consortiums like r3 and those are concerned about sort of financial assets financial settlements but then if you ask yourself for the non-financial you spaces of what can I think those are very interesting so digital assets ownership supply chain these sorts of things and um we liked the positioning of hyper ledger and so we decided that that would be a good one to join yeah did I answer the question : I think this week I think a couple days now he's gonna talk more about what we're doing with with hyper ledger yeah I think we were actually the first in Taiwan to do a hyper legend I think why don't why do you have a legend well I thought it was differently so so hyper ledger is really private questions it really is I mean there but that's like it seems like their focus is on um industrial applications of workshops and to date like those are private and so if you're in the public watch-chain space then you have Bitcoin you have a theory and then the question becomes well why didn't we build on a theory on why didn't we build on Bitcoin yeah why um so so fundamentally this is difference between property and money okay so so bitcoins is money the tokens that you're exchanging on the Bitcoin blockchain and also the etherium watching alright so ether these are interchangeable they have no owners they're it's supposed to be a currency it's a like if I have like my voice might be right and you have that we can change that varies exactly the same okay but your data is totally unique right what makes something a property is that it belongs to someone and so in the blockchain level on the actual transactional level you need the ability to to verify the ownership of something and so what we realized after developing for quite some time is that we needed to have on that protocol level the ability to have ownership whose is this to have like the tokens right if you will to not the interchange to be unique right so in the bit mark blockchain every one of these properties is unique they're not the same they're not changeable they're not interchangeable um every Bitcoin is interchangeable in fact the moment bitcoin is not interchangeable you break yeah that's the way the AML the ante money laundering and know your customer all of these things are about how do you attach identity to money and once you do that once you attach that to money you break the value of money what makes Bitcoin and what makes a theorem interesting is the fact that it does not attach an entity to it right oh yes there's there's two main differences from the business kind of social let me always start there from the business social perspective ascribe on monograph these are different people that are trying to register digital stuff on the blockchain and their perspective is very much from licensing so an easier way to license a more efficient way to license our perspective is we want data to be an asset that's by an individual so that starting point is different ascribe uses they use the Opera turn codes so they use the scripting language to to store within the big Bitcoin blockchain there's another company called Chronicle which stores stuff in the etherium watching and so we have our Mohawk train it's unique for property so I would say kind of two things technically very different blockchains and business-wise like concept-wise um one is about ownership one's about licensing yeah basically a minimum network several in Marty's way and they hooked up to a single mine up and a Bitcoin payment screen is showing you a snapshot it's been running for a while so there's a new block be mine already just in mind in this one I'll show you this is my discrepant Adrenaline's continually sending issues back to you see some of the adjacent requesters are going in and this is showing a basic issue request with several assets get the assets that is the asset data it has been a clinic which I could be any string any string like the metadata that has that key value so you can choose whatever you like and he has a name that's just any string now here we have the public key and the register digital signature this is one of the primary functions of the distance provide the provenance from a particular item and show you which one's the owner and we can also transfer this so the second main function is to provide a transfer this is my mo my program my identity my configuration and then transfer that issue to some other person his name is this one you'll notice it's asking for a painting the currently disability payments are bitcoins and it's telling you which address the bank and how much debate and for convenience I have a command line that will Express the Bitcoin and the local machine well this is basically doing is embedding this hex value into the OP return of the Bitcoin blockchain this is just a fake number that we use to identify the payment record which is quizzes their payment address okay to try running it again okay we've gone through this time and we've got the Bitcoin transaction ID we need to generate a few blocks and then we need to send the receipt I mean this this last part is a bit of a act because I have to tell them the bit wrong DS where the transaction has been paid I'm modifying it at the moment to get rid of that function and have that fully self-contained inside the bit mark these so they can determine payments automatically I finally so the trust work shows this ID now should be able to see the provenance it's not be mind yet what we're trying to do with these series of commands and transfer from the transferor we try to transfer from my ownership to another person six problems will come up this is the previous problems somebody's me have made an issue of this particular asset so I've said I'd make a copy of this item and I'm continuing to transfer it to another person which is what the second still wasting point too so is this seminar running seven seven dollars for everyone here I got here this is my mining program I got here a Bitcoin server I have three bit marquees running in this room though another one is 407 I've got a script here and monitoring things performing issues distressing I'll have to wait for a few more processes to go through a few more walks together get generators we probably can see the transfer and I'm just issued three more items and as you can see that face these are the number of outstanding transactions that haven't been my new two blocks oh four nodes are not actually up to date yet this one is ahead by one it's not completely propagating across this network yet in that it should be reasonably quick on local panelists unfortunately the CPU just rest a bit [Music] just put up the box so you can see the sort of things that stone on inside a bit mathy it's preparing blocks to send to the miner maybe it's sending out queries to adjacent nodes it's scanning the local Bitcoin to see what's happened that we've seen the CPU is quite low power in here so it struggles to mine and fix quite a while yeah but that's really explain the mining hashes we're using a very secure hash for this one we're not sticking with the the Bitcoin hashes we've completely replaced them we're using a Shari's for the merkel training and they're using argon - for the block hash to force it to be the CPU money - so we we don't want a sixth amendment we're looking to keep it away from them you can just actually see a block without creating them with broadcasters there yes okay finally got it mind we can see the issue now almost become false and I've transferred it to a new owner you can see that a little differently so we could actually do another transfer from this this top item that TX I do right it's been longer annoying on the small that's stunning for low resolutions that's the latest residence okay just about transfer home by this person as you can see it's different from the original on the machine here and the registry you notice is the same as traditional my issue to the copy I registered it and I transferred it through second news in here I see what wants to ask some more questions about maybe I can explain a little more clearly other things that you can section this is a transaction yes that's a transaction and then directories or the records yeah this is this is the matter going to basically excited later so each one of these is three transactions and their forms a chain a chain or a machine so you can trace back this transfer links to this this issue and this issue links to this asset people are just public please the asset is free - yeah so your data is stored on your computer um could be in the quality like you sort it yourself and then when you transfer something um what the software is doing is it's just checking to make sure hey this is the same thing you said it was so I'm gonna sell you my data or I'm gonna sell you the photograph or a video and whatever that thing might be you want to be able to authenticate that so you want to know okay came from me so you're checking the public key and then you want to know that it was the thing I told you it was yes yeah so like here's what's interesting about that question is um humans have been working on that for thousands of years right so for 200 years at least in law they have really elegant solutions for ownership right all you have to do is know who belongs like like what belongs to whom okay now the problem is in the digital in the digital environment there is no registry there is no record of who thinks whose it - okay so let's say for example there's a Beyonce song okay and I register this Beyonce song okay and let's say you are Beyonce okay just somewhat similar right so so we both register this song okay on the bit mark blockchain okay and I start selling it and he starts selling it what happens actually this is super easy for the courts right this is the easiest possible thing they're like what am i doing I'm like Sean you would not be on set you're doing something illegal that's like this super like the most easy thing on earth for lawyers to deal with the problem is that normally you have kind of law and you have law figures out okay this looks like something people should should should own this but tech somehow kind of jumped ahead and said hey we're gonna make all this stuff and all of this stuff is not going to belong to anyway right and so our perspective is like no like people are still making that stuff alright so just give them an easy way to say hey this is mine right and is it really yours well that that's what courts are good at that's what larger bit totally they're really good at that yeah they just not have attack like lawyers have no solution to this problem right like you say that bin is mine the lawyer says how prove it yeah so that's what's so great about digital stuff is you can encrypt it and so so you have the ability to so it's not really fair to say like code is law but in the digital world um if facebook says you can't do that and they did not make a software that lets you do that you're not gonna do it right so like can I go to the banking can I take all the money out right there's a law that says no okay but if I have enough force I can go and then I can get okay in the digital environment no matter how much force you have you're not gonna break somebody's encryption there's not gonna break alright and so so so you have the ability to kind of combine what I think is special about bit mark is we're trying to combine law and code together so our perspective on ownership is nothing new lawyers figure this out hundreds of years ago right we're just giving them the code that would allow that to be really clear and really easy for people to understand yes [Music] so okay you're a lawyer yes okay my dad's a lawyer he does estate planning if I helped so you kind of get more perspective so property rights are regional so property rights in the US are different than property rights in China they're different than property rights in say Vietnam Taiwan all have different sort of businesses back with social stuff right so how a society agrees upon who gets to use what who owns what these are property rights okay so what our system is an ownership registry so how the ownership can be used in what places this is a question for property rights and lawyers in specific jurisdictions I know all you're doing when you register an asset is you're asserting ownership you're saying this is mine okay um do you have rights to do that or not um those all then become sort of follow-on business societal questions the real problem that we're solving is just how do you establish ownership for an individual kind of certain ownership when you do something creative when you take a picture when you when you write a novel um these are all self declared you are asserting that you are the author of this work and the courts know how to deal with that right um in the digital environment you need a registry so people can assert ownership so it's clear and then that fits right into how the lawyers know how to deal with stuff so this looks just like contract law you know was there a signature you know did somebody make this when do they make it um if I sell you something you know um is that is there a contract for that not really a contract like smart contract like you know if they're in contract but like was there an intent like that I actually sell it to you right um and law cares about intent um you guys probably aware about the UM the Dow hacking okay now a lawyer's perspective of the Dow hacking is going to be very different than a technologists perspective so a technologist on was the Dow hat no not at all there was code that said you could do that that person did that what's he legal about that nothing it's totally legal right there was no violation of physics there was no violation of computer science the code said you could do that that person did that okay most people won't be satisfied with that why because law is different than code right law is about intent the intent of the Dow contract was to crowdsource funding opportunities and people put money into a smart contract with the intent that that money was to be used for investment purposes not for some person who's smart to go in there and take the money up right and so from the code perspective the the contract was perfectly fine there was a bug in it okay but depend upon whose perspective it as either bugger was a feature right from the lawyers perspective that's a hack it was hacked it was stolen which one's right it's a really hard question and answer you can't answer that question it depends on his perspective you're looking from a lawyer would say that was hacked there was intent that was supposed to be used for one purpose somebody hacked it for another purpose an engineer should look at that and say no I wasn't a hack at all I was a bug in our program right these are all very very hard questions will take a long time to get sorted out we didn't put a scripting language in our blockchain for the reason that we try to be very simple this is a registry of ownership you can transfer things it's clear who has what on smart contracts can be layered on top dumb contracts probably come first hit yeah yeah yes yeah property right sure sure um the first thing to understand is that um things like creative comments things like GPL on these are all hacks on copyright law okay so on copyright law is a particular property right of intellectual property okay so somebody that creates something you have copyright to that you can sort of separate these two you can make copies right that's like a distribution right right and copyright is the right to make copies literally right now our system is not about intellectual property just like the IP system is not about land okay so um within digital stuff some things will look like coffee right and our system can handle that but it's no different than how people would make coffees now you could say each of these properties is a coffee that's okay so I have a photograph I register ownership of this photograph as the creator of this I have the copyright so I can produce copies I sell them to you that doesn't give you the right to make more right I could register the copyright as a property and sell it to you that's okay right so ours how does if you will is like one layer higher of abstraction it's on the property layer and specifically saying that digital property needs to exist so you have real property plant you have intellectual property of which copyright is one of the sort of aspects of that you have trademarks you have coffee variety of patents right those are intellectual property and you have this third category which we believe has to exist with data that doesn't exist right now and all the transaction that has to be like volunteer from the from the owner for example professor from the University notes India I mean Internet yeah and you you have property a bit over those notes for you allow the copying all these things for different people to take them these were this will be implemented on that this would be like would help these kind of transaction so Chris's demo probably was was satisfying for half the people in this room okay um I want to show you a demo for for the other half okay so Chris showed you the the backend the peer-to-peer network let me speak Arabic is it okay so um everything Chris was showing him what was here right these are the peer-to-peer networks the nodes okay I can use just like this there you go so Chris was showing you a demo of the bit mark network the whole peer-to-peer system he was zooming in and showing you how the proof-of-work is functioning all of these kind of things I want to show you our apps so like the high level like how you would create a property so he showed you like how you create a property from like the binary stuff like the really really low level things um you download our software looks like this okay you come in here you make a new account you don't need to ask permission so I set a passcode so your bit mark account is entirely local it's one of these public/private key things once you get in to the system you see these kind of sections your properties listings you can list your properties for sale you know they're yours you can sell them you can connect in if so like you can do something like every time I take an Instagram photo automatically convert it to property listed for sale um if I have a new location data automatically convert the property sell it so your location data is worth about $150 a year us you couldn't eat it might sound small but you can imagine lots and lots and lots of this data being your property and then this provides like a base income that would be nice so um is you a bit mark I take a file a piece of data something on my computer I'm a big fan of this app it's called a reporter app it runs on my phone it just gets information about my environment one with where am i how many steps taken what's the weather what's the humidity stuff like this and it writes it into a JSON file and I backed this up like every day there's a script that's automatically so I'm gonna bit mark this data might be interesting to somebody so this is called reporter data so this is from the reporter iOS app so this is um what is this thing right so we showed you the metadata this is metadata okay and then how many do we want right so this would be like copyright I want to make copies okay so as as the owner of this asset I want to make digital properties of it each one can be tracked each one can be sold that's that's two three and then I'm signing it so I'm saying that yes this is mine I have the rights to to do this and then um this is gonna broadcast it so this is going to go back into Chris's Network so we're pushing things into here okay um it will take one to two minutes roughly for the system to mine it oh you can see right now there's there's three of these because I'm in three and the state is is verifying okay um in about an and a half once it's finished I will list one of these for sale and then I can share this link with somebody I could post there over social media and then you could buy the data when you buy it um what happens is the ownership gets transferred to the the person that's buying it so money comes in ownership it's transferred that person connects connects into my computer peer-to-peer and all the asset gets transferred okay yeah yes so you're the software right here has a built-in Bitcoin wallet it's low sorry this line right here is so your your software your bit one could count the same seed that generates your your bit one account can also generate the Bitcoin addresses and so you can hold money that way um if you want it to you can connect and stripe and you can take credit card because not everybody likes to take Bitcoin right um so those two right there yep minute um the way that assets are transferred like say you buy my data the way it moves from me to you is over the BitTorrent protocol it's just protected because the blockchain is checking the ownership like do you really have ownership and if you know I'm ownership you can't download but it's just standard Bitcoin okay so here we go so we've like three of these now I'm gonna click on one and it has a time step so 837 so I'm seven minutes late sorry um when it was created so I can show the asset so here is this this data that I've shown you about which is all kinds of raw data I can list this for sale so let me list it for sale let me sell for a Bitcoin always up you wanna buy it [Music] I'll take a few seconds okay we must have a bug in the sales server right now Oh once this is listed for sale it would generate a URL that I could share and I send that out and then you could click on it and you put in a bit like a comment and then you even buy it yes yeah so we have this registry online and you can see all this property so like here's the one I just created and there's three instances of this and each one you know has its history and so when I list something for sale um that's not like a blockchain level action right only transfers are being recorded in the blockchain so all of this other stuff like listing down the road and you can rent right so this stuff comes these are things that you can do as a property owner you can rent you can lease you can lend you know all this kind of stuff so so that the first way to is transfer yeah yes [Music] yeah down the road we would work on things like escrow you can do that pretty easily with you know with a number of different like cryptocurrency type stuff on in the beginning everything we do looks like you're buying a photo from a photographer you know you're buying music from somebody that you like you are buying data and and you know something about this data you know it came from an iPhone that was signed so you're a researcher you need to have the rights to use this you need to know it's authentic and so all of our focus from getting the business side going getting the commerce side going is about having trust so um the so Bitcoin had a very specific problem how do you allow individuals to exchange value without any trust whatsoever we're trying to let individuals come to consensus on who owns what and what that thing that's being owned well that's something that's not something code can tell 100% for sure so ours is a separate kind of class of problems it's how do we record who owns it how to use safeguard what's known as the provenance of something so like let's say you and I both had a Picasso painting and my painting was in my garage for the past you know 50 years yours was on loan to the Tate Modern it was on loan to MoMA you know number of famous museums um if you could prove that that happened if you could prove that the owner that this was in that program on you would say when the value of your property is a lot more than mine even if it's from sort of the same author same artist same period of time so um keeping track of who and what when is what our system is trying to do what is something that ultimately needs trust in these waters so if you try to register an asset that's already in the blockchain this is kind of a fun case this is like United States saying that they own California and Mexico saying they own California not a new problem I could say the one with Taiwan and China but my wife would kill me so conflicting ownership claims how do you resolve it the key is that you record all the claims permanently because who owns what changes over time so the same asset two people have claimed ownership and have issued properties from that asset okay two people have created property titles from the perspective of a buyer you want to look at the one with the most with the longest provenance that most likely some time in history somebody said nope you're not the owner that's wrong and so that that provenance gets shorter yeah so the way we resolve this is by recording everything yeah I think this is actually kind of a deep deep philosophical thing that a hundred years from now who owns what who has property rights to what is totally different than what it is now you look at any country that borders always change borders are who owns what but what you want is a record that cannot be tampered with that cannot be changed of who claimed ownership over what yeah the moment you have that now you can do interesting stuff when you have war one of the first things that happens is they destroy all of the land title's why any asset that you can wipe away the ownership records for you can have new owners you can have new wealth and so this is a system that once an ownership claim was asserted you can't wipe it away yeah okay um we're in a private beta but if anybody wants to try I'd love for you to try we're about one two months away from a public beta right where anybody can can do stuff so what we're really looking for is people that want to try to to sell something people that would like to maybe develop something with it um people that was willing to give us feedback on the user interface does it make sense isn't easy to use who designed it yeah we did yeah no no Chris deals with all the back end he does real engineering I don't know any engineering anymore I'm like I'm like the guy that goes and raising money in this business the people that are responsible for making it look pretty unfortunately are not here but they are in Taiwan so it will be great if you come meet them yeah so we have libraries we have a lot of um kind of interesting simple command line stuff that chris has developed in Indo you could use that um we have a node library you can use that so so nodejs if you like that instead or or go both are fairly robust um fully open source those are all public now so if you are interested try it give us feedback we need people trying yeah okay any more questions correct yeah yeah everyone should transfer correct so if you this is my a bit more account it's just some number so I can choose hey do I want to link this number to my my domain name my Twitter account my github account you know later on like Facebook so it's um who owns what is like which account owns what so it's up to you as an individual if you want to let people know who you are yeah on the value of property is the owner this is kind of hard for people when they first hear this but like I think it's the same in Taiwan but in the u.s. um you can look at everyone's home and what they pay for it all public record you can look at cars who registered the cars what's the history of the car who owned the car was it wrecked was it salvaged all of this stuff is is public so property gets its value through public records without public records property doesn't have much value yeah it's a different concept yeah it's very different than money money is so different than property yeah sure sure [Applause] Oh chi-su ventana' horse all that again Oh golly that was it I'll wipe my eyes yeah