Dennison Bertram I Tally Product Announcement | Pragma Waterloo

foreign [Music] so I want to bring on an amazing person Tennyson Tennyson and I have known each other for almost five years now Tennyson Works Italy tally is a platform that I'm sure most of you have seen and used by now if you're part of any Dow Community today Denison is going to be announcing a really amazing feature they've been working on for the past few months so I won't ruin the surprise I'll let Dennis and actually show you what they're building and without further Ado please welcome Denison on stage hello hello is this one yeah great um excellent thank you so much for having me today uh so as cartridge mentioned my name is Denison Bertram I am the co-founder and CEO of tally Tally is a tool that's really focused on on-chain governance decentralization allowing teams projects protocols things to actually build credibly neutral decentralization for it on chain and today we are actually launching a new feature a new product new service for that uh which is on chain swaps right and on Gene swaps are powered on tally by a cow Swap and what we're going to do is today I'm going to talk a little bit about this product and feature and then give a little bit of a demo and then we'll probably talk a little bit more about Dao's and decentralization so a little background on tally itself uh what do we do we power l2s and protocols right so these are folks like arbitrum uniswap Ave ens and many more uh we allow users to actually discover and manage large communities uh the Dows on tally have hundreds of thousands of participants they have tens of thousands of votes on proposals and using tally you can actually look into understanding who are these people what are they doing how are they participating uh we also help you manage and diversify Dow treasuries that's a little bit of the focus of this presentation today uh with Tools around on-chain Mev protected swaps that's what we'll be talking about but there are other things that you can do on tally today around a treasury management you can use tally to propose paying people out many dials on tally use tally to actually pay out their team members who can use it to transfer funds you can use it to do many of these different things and because a lot of this on chain is actually very difficult to do there's a lot of steps there's a lot of risk we actually have no code proposal creation uh with drafts and simulations so this allows you to create a proposal saying Hey I want to do X Y and Z you can actually simulate and say aha this is actually going to work and then you can share it to someone and say hey could you look over this does this look good and if they like it you can then put it on chain right this is important because on chain dials are very different than off-chain dials where everything is happening in smart contracts and they can be very unforgiving but that's both a good and bad thing because many of the Dows on tally manage quite a lot of power and assets today the Dows on tally manage over 10 billion dollars in assets through the interface but they also do wild things like they control things like sequencers they control things like Bridges they control things like entire Roll-Ups so it is both a very high risk thing it can be very scary but it's also very technical so no code tools for proposal creation are very important for helping the general wider Community actually create change and uh create things that happen inside their Dios so why build on chain swaps for Dows right this this is a problem that might not be entirely obvious but dowels in general have very large but concentrated treasuries right you know there's a meme that happens every now and then around treasury management especially when prices are going down and downs are like do we have Runway uh do we have enough money to fund different things how are we allocating our funds etc etc so if you look at some of the largest dials out there arbitrim they have 3.7 billion dollars of ARB token but they also have six million dollars in each and not only do they have six million dollars in each but they actually earn Revenue in eth right the sequencer for arbitrum actually collects ethereum as fees and that goes directly to the Dow right arbitrim is an entirely decentralized L2 right the people that hold or the addresses that hold voting power in arbitrum actually control the entire technology stack including what to do with their Revenue uh nouns down now has 26 million in staked eth and 24 million of regular Eve uh nasdao also has Revenue they sell nfts they sell membership in eth uh uniswap uniswap has 1.5 billion of uni but not much else right but there is a currently there's a proposal that's being discussed you know people start to talk about the fee switch uh uniswap conceivably could make money uh and the Dow is responsible for deciding when and how they make money and when they get to that they're going to have to also decide how to spend it or allocate it right and then of course ens ens has 78 million of ens they have 27 million of each and 15 million of usdc and actually there's 50 million of usdc uh came about as a proposal that was done earlier in the year is very contentious around treasury management for ens and that was actually a proposal that helped us see that this tool that we're we're announcing today is actually very important right because ens also makes Revenue new right they sell domain names and uh well you know ens names should say and those ens names they sell for if and so they also have Revenue so what do they do with it well the second part of this is Dallas have a hard time swapping tokens right this this might seem um unusual because you know for most of us we go to uniswap to swapper tokens or you know maybe we use metamask swaps we simply like plug in how much uh you know of a token we're going to swap for another token we press a button and it's done of course now we well know that there's a dark Forest out there and we have things like Mev Bots who are watching our orders and sandwiching them and extracting value out of our orders and this problem actually only gets worse for Dows right um and that was a perfect Target for Mev Bots for a couple reasons right proposals are public right by the nature of it if I have a dow and I say I would like to swap uh 50 million dollars of one token for 50 million dollars worth of another token everybody in the room knows about it and they know about it sometimes for weeks in advance right so if you are an Mev person you could build a strategy specifically around sandwiching that one proposal and the problem actually gets even worse because the execution of proposals is permissionless once a proposal is passed and it becomes ready for execution anyone can execute it and a smart contract can execute it so if you're an Mev bot you could actually build an entire flow specifically to sandwich this proposal where you could run a smart contract that's going to screw this down and call execute and screw them again at the other side right so this is very difficult thing for Dows to do right other problems that they have is to avoid this they have centralized trusted intermediaries if you look at a lot of Treasury diversification programs a lot of the debate goes around okay what we got to do is we have to find someone we got to give them millions of dollars and then they're going to go to coinbase or binance and then ideally they're gonna like put it through there and they're gonna like do it drip by drip and try and like get the best rate and we're going to pay them some sort of fee for doing it right and we have to trust this third party but there's a catch here right not only is there trust required and there's a lot of legal work that's also required but there's a loss of transparency here once these funds leave control of the Dow and they go into this this person or entity that's going to do the management and you know this is a really well paid job because it's a lot of risk and it's very complicated it's very important right the Dow no longer has transparency on it they don't see where the market order price was filled they don't understand what exchanges the money is at they don't get to see the kyc documents of the person holding the money and if something goes wrong it's very unclear how you Joe or Jane token holder is going to do about it right so these are big problems for Dows especially when we talk about transacting millions of dollars worth of orders right so Cal swap has built a really incredible platform stack which allows you to create Mev protected orders because they have their own network of solvers which compete with one another on signed orders to provide the best price and because the way it's built there isn't the ability to sandwich it right these are Mev uh protected orders right but there's another problem creating these orders on Chain by a smart contract is really difficult it's hard to do and it's also very scary to do right because you're creating this packed byte code with all this information that goes in and if you mess it up you can get royally screwed to be frank right but it also makes it very difficult for people to create not just because it's difficult to create but because there's a social element of trust that goes into creating it you don't want to be the person who creates the smart contract order by hand manually that loses money for your Dow right so what happens is there's a lot of people with great ideas out there for treasury management there's a lot of people out there with great ideas on swapping tokens for something but everyone is a little bit afraid to be the person who actually does it right because sometimes these communities especially can be very unforgiving of mistakes right so creating orders directly on Mev protective protocols is very hard so enter tally on chain swaps right so what we've built here is on chain execution and me preview protection as a recipe on tally we've worked with Cal swap there's a special smart contract that's built called Milkman um the cow swap protocol is very into in into the cow theme um so there's a special smart contract called Milkman that allows other smart contracts like the governor on chain dials to interact with it and create orders that are then filled uh by the the uh Cal swap Network right so what this does is leverages the composability of Governor right because Governor can interact with many other different things and allows you to do these these uh on-chain Mev protected swaps right uh because of this tool we've made it really simple to actually create the order it looks like a uniswap type of interface right where you're able to select your tokens that you're you're swapping from and it's all no code right so you don't really have to know okay under the hood I've got to think about this and I got to pack my bites like this I got to create the data like that right it's it's very easy to use right and this actually helps to alleviate the issue where people have this sort of you know um nervousness about creating these kinds of proposals it allows Dow administrators uh large delegates well-known delegates lesser known delegates to with confidence create these proposals without being really afraid about it right but the most important part here one of the most important parts is because these orders all execute on chain they remain trustless and transparent right now what happens when you create an order when you create a swap here is the money doesn't go to some individual right that manages it off chain right the entire processes stay on chain it's very transparent and everyone can see how it's executed why it's executed or if it doesn't get executed why it didn't get executed right so it's very transparent in this way so that gives you the out accountability and the more decentralized nature of this okay so now we're going to do a little demo video it's quite brief because the the feature is quite easy to use and I'm going to hope that this works and talk a little bit through it okay so what we're looking at here is um just a test down on tally and we go and we use the tool to create a proposal right and here you go through the standard steps on tally to create a proposal you connect your account uh get your wallet make sure that you have enough voting power to actually propose this if you didn't have enough voting power you could create a draft that you could then share with someone else so that someone else with enough voting power would be able to put it on chain for you all right so we could continue we have this nice little no code interface for putting some uh information in here around your proposal so you're putting your title we're going to do some test token swaps um and then a little description and then what we're going to do now is we're actually going to create choose the swap action right so here you get to choose your tokens that you're working on that you want to do the swap it looks exactly like your typical swap interface that you see all over the great interwebs these days um so it's very approachable and you see a lot of information here right you see the price your execution cost the fee currently we're not taking a fee and we have a few critical pieces in there we have price Checkers all the sort of like complicated elements of making sure a swap happen are all included in a really easy to use no quote interface here right so once you create that proposal oops sorry I just pressed enter there let me just pause it there once you create that proposal um it goes on chain and now the reason why we're doing this in a video and not live is now you have to vote on it so the proposal goes into the standard proposal life cycle where folks now see a proposal is live they go to it they vote on it they have this nice handy little receipt down here at the bottom that tells them that I'm not sure if you can see it super well yeah but the proposal is pending execution um so once the proposal goes through the whole life cycle where folks vote on it ideally we're going to click four we're voting for this and we have great common this is a great right uh we click submit and then you're all right so you go through the entire life cycle of voting this could be a couple hours this could be several weeks doesn't matter right and this is actually a pretty key point to note you can create an order that may not execute for weeks right that's very difficult to do today right because today when you swap token you just swap a token you don't say hey I'm going to create an order in metamask or in uniswap to swap in weeks from now because the danger here is maybe you won't get a great price maybe you'll say okay uh you know eth is 1500 you know what was it 1700 three days ago right you say okay I'm gonna sell for 1700. the proposal takes three days to to go through the voting period okay it's you know success um people want to do it but oh Eve is almost at 2K again right but now you're gonna sell it at 1700. so the Dow will actually have a loss there right what we are doing here with Cal Swap and Milkman is actually what we're doing is there's a price checker and that's something that you know there's a default what set in here which is uniswap V3 Oracle right although you can create your own price checker and the price checker actually says hey when it comes time to execute this order I want it at a fair price using uniswap's V3 Oracle we can say hey whatever the price is then when this proposal executes that's the price that we want to use now maybe the price goes down that's possible but maybe the price goes up the fact is you're getting their actual market rate right so you don't have to create the situation where you have some sort of manipulation or you're not able to perceive you know what the proper value is going to be in the future and you can also set a slippage right so you can say hey maybe my order is really big but this is the maximum amount of slippage that I want on this order right now the slippage is also really interesting because what you're doing is you set the maximum amount of slippage and then the cow swap Network actually has solvers that compete with one another to offer better slippage So when you say okay you know maximum slippage 10 percent you actually have this network of solvers in the Kyle swap Network that actually try and one-up each other with less and less less slippage so you end up getting not only a fair market Price but you also get the least amount of slippage possible based on market demand so the flow is quite simple once this proposal passes and we see that you can actually see the executable code that actually is being sent to the Milkman contract on the network you can actually simulate it and download the simulations to understand uh what is going to happen here then as we go through it so Tommy was making the video so he's the he's the person who voted so the proposal is passed he's going to cue it so once the proposal is queued it is now ready to be executed by the time lock so if you see that we see the pending execution you can go ahead and execute it and when the proposal is executed what happens is this data is sent to the Cal swap Network and now the solvers start working on this order right and once the solvers see the order and they fill it uh what we see is um we update the receipt on the proposal saying it has been fulfilled and then you can go to the Dow and you'll actually see in the treasury the list of the assets you will now have the the transaction um having the proposal the swap completed so that's the end of The Proposal video so yeah a little wrap up of just about tally if you're interested um we do a lot of things to help Dao's uh the swaps our latest feature that we've built if you're interested in swats for your Dow please come up and uh speak with me or you can certainly reach out we do a large number of things four Dows we help folks launch the Dow consultant tokens create a support wide and diverse community of delegates this is just another step in helping to enable these decentralized communities to work better and let me get the last thing if you want to get in touch you can reach us at hello at tally.

xyz so that's the that's the demo Dolly swaps well thank you so much for that Dennis that was a a super easy to follow and just the amount of context he already gave makes everybody easy to Super understand what tally swaps are um oh I'll kind of I want to do a few small questions here just so we can give our audience a little bit more context but uh mostly about kind of zooming out and honestly understanding what made you originally start tally yeah so so tally as I sort of gave a little intro is a lot about um Dows and decentralization and my co-founder and I we were a member of a group called crypto NYC uh in 2016 2017 which was basically the New York City based co-working place if you're working on something in web 3 at the time you know opens he had the office next door all 10 other companies yeah all 10 other companies you know there was you you were either working out of like the Bushwick office of consensus or you were at the Canal Street wework um and at the time a lot of teams would come in on their sort of like Ico World Tour when they hit like you know the East Coast North America and they would pitch us on really cool ideas a lot of early dials came through right maker Dow um Aragon a lot of folks are pitching Dows and for the most part the idea excited myself and my co-founder RAF but for many things it seemed too early it wasn't really clear what there was yet to actually govern um that changed in when compound released the comp token during defy summer uh what it became clear that protocols needed to be managed so there was something that a community of users needed to to manage in real time but also that there was a lot of money at stake right that these protocols made money right so you both had something that needed levers to be pulled on Smart contracts and you needed something that uh managed a treasury right so for us it became quite clear that if we were going to actually scale web 3 and scale many of the visions that we had for decentralization and uh just you know things in web 3 in general you are going to need real credible decentralization behind it and to do that you needed a lot of tooling right because at the time there wasn't very much tooling the tooling that was out there was very opinionated um if anyone's ever looked into the maker source code you know it was you know back in the day is a real joke how it was really impossible to decipher what was happening everything in a three-letter acronym those Jokers like the cat flips the flaps and bites the you know it was just a nightmare to understand how is this all working so we realized that in order to make this work we were going to need tools that gave Greta Clarity helped people participate easier um really do all these things to make you know Dows work well I think it's been extremely beneficial to have tally around because now I can go every just a single place and see what what's going on for every of these communities but maybe to zoom out just a little bit more um for yourself I'm curious to hear the answer but also it will be helpful to kind of give the audience here a Finance around this too why why are Dows exciting and what excites you about these dows yeah so there we have this thesis that we're working on I'm giving a talk at efcc called the hyperscale public infrastructure thesis for Dao's and I love buzzwords so I try to pack them all into one title and I think I did a pretty good job but I could probably do this missing AI in there yeah the AI over scale right um but really when we think about all the things we're building the layer twos you know arbitrum optimism scroll all these things that people are building you know when we talk about these Bridges when we talk about things like eigenlayer what we're really talking about is the future of not just public infrastructure but the buzzword hyperscale public infrastructure right if you think about layer twos like arbitrum there really isn't any physical upper limit to how much value can live inside of that system right today's many billions of dollars but there's no reason why it can't be many trillions of dollars dollars right all of these systems don't have an upper limit to how much value can be in them and that means there's no upper limit to how many problems they can be solving for how many people they can be solving them for except credible neutrality for political decision making right everyone remembers what Facebook did to Zynga years ago Zynga built an incredibly successful company on top of Facebook and Facebook pulled the rug out of from under them you could argue that maybe something similar is happening in Reddit today right it already happened for Twitter a month ago it already happened for Twitter a month ago right so if you are going to build something if you have some idea that you think is a trillion dollar idea which I'm sure some people in the room have and they'll work on it this weekend at the hackathon who are you going to build this trillion dollar idea on are you going to build it on top of Facebook knowing that the moment Zuckerberg sees the value of it he will steal it from you essentially rug you on that right not to be too direct to Zuckerberg in the audience you know yeah uh but the worst that could happen a cage match fight yeah exactly exactly but yeah I saw it too uh but but but this is a real question if you were going to build something that is going to be extremely valuable where do you feel safe building it we talked a little bit earlier in the discussion here about eigenlayer and reusing the social consensus layer on staking right if you build something you want to be sure that you're building it in a place where decisions are made in a credibly neutral way in a place in a form where you have a voice in it so when we talk about the future of all these l2s of l3s of l4s of messaging layers of protocols that have the ability to hold this much value what we're really talking is how are we going to make these places credibly neutral places to build on and to do that you need decentralization and you need Dows right and this is what it's exciting because all of the future hyperscale infrastructure things that may hold trillions of dollars of value must be decentralized they must be transparent because otherwise people just won't build the most valuable things there because it's too inherently dangerous right if you build on a layer that's not decentralized and you know that if your product becomes the most important product on that layer the layer itself May steal it from you you'll never build there right so because of that we are super excited about Dows because they really underline the future of all this digital infrastructure that we're building we don't think about it day to day but the underlying infrastructure for the digital or electronic infrastructure today is the judicial system right I can take you to court I assume I understand how courts work but in general we don't really trust court so much so actually everyone says we only really really feel confident in how Delaware courts work right and the entire world is just Delaware that we really think we understand how those courts work and when VCS say hey when you're Incorporated you know generally they like to hear Delaware where you're doing things generally people like to hear Delaware right because they say okay if I build this on top of you then I at least I can sue you in Delaware right but there's a lot of apps that people don't build nobody built the new version of Zynga on Facebook right that idea was dead not because the idea is bad not because Farmville isn't fun but because it was no longer safe right so Dows bring that safety to DNS names right they bring that safety to bank accounts to lending to sequencers to upgrades to your network to how the smart contract code is going to be run how we're going to handle massive hacks how we're going to compensate people who've been wronged all these things need credible decentralization credible neutrality a clear political arena for solving disagreements all of them need Dows and that's that's what I'm really excited about it because it really applies to everything that we're building I think this this answer just as a round of applause this is amazing that's what I thought I feel like anything I'm going to ask you next is not going to compare to the the answer you just given so I'm just going to stop because I think that is a really good way of summarizing why this is important and how actually you what you may not realize now can effectively be the thing that governs billions to trillions of dollars in value and and effectively part of why we've been talking so much about why decentralization matters is because effectively people want to make sure that everybody else has the same rules apply to them too it it's super easy to notice when somebody's getting preferential treatment and if we want things to scale if you want things to be neutral especially as a platform you're relying on you want to make sure that if somebody breaks the rules they're either held accountable or it's just not even possible so looks like tally is making wonderful ways in making that reality and uh swaps help you do a lot of more of that efficiently and that scales so congratulations thank you thank you Dennison this has been amazing