(Edited) Mikerah | Challenges in Blockchain Access Privacy for Ethereum | Taipei Ethereum Meetup

and yeah so I'm going to start by introducing Nicole okay alright so welcome welcome everyone especially friends from Taiwan Taipei and from Hainan shoes and from Japan and friends from Singapore friends from Thailand welcome for tonight's events it's type ASEAN meetup event we usually do it in a physical space with like a physical event because of Kobe 9 same situation we serve like you know some changes and like innovate with our event planning so thanks very much for you Kara for joining us tonight from total Canada and thanks very much for Suzy for making all the effort to rent this very beautiful place and the equipment's that out becoming even more professional every day every men that we we cognize is really helping helping us to improve in terms of equipment um tonight's event there's like a specific topic that we want to talk about so McCarrick appeared that's very very interesting and informative presentation slides that everyone can can take a look at afterwards the topic is city room access privacy and I'd like to give a little introduction off the speaker tonight so me Kara Clinton Collins she's a prominent researcher she's the founder and CEO of hash coke it's a blockchain privacy sorrow with the global team and her research focuses on networking validated privacy and optimistic Road apps and I met some acara in Prague 2018 at DEFCON my only matter very grisly like sort of like this acquaintance and then I met her again Osaka Japan last year eh yeah so last year we went to check when tailstock up for this DEFCON you serum conference event again and we met to have like at a coffee shop where we had sort of like the afternoon tea and she was like ordering all the food they like desserts in Japanese which blew my mind and then we met again this year in Paris France for another insane conference call ECC she again ordered everything in French which blew my mind again yeah and then she said something like she was really interested in learning men dress or we sort of keep in touch so I'm happy and very honored to introduce my character so nice so you Karen I think you can take it away now hello yes am i breathing in and out okay okay thanks for the potential yeah and the girls always interested yeah so I make sure it's morning where I am so I will not be sure at least we'll have a morning place but yet today I'll be talking a little bit about things I've been thinking about with regards to accessing that the blockchain from an ordinary inspector yeah the main goal of this talk is for used to bring the problem of accessing aetherium privately to a wider audience it's not something that many people think about so there if you have any questions and ask them at the end and then at the end also have ways in which you can stay in touch of you know any of these things are interesting to you so the main motivation behind the lifting of this that tell me on a theorem everything here on chain there's no suit on this so that means that you only have one chain I have these on chain identities known as a justice and you can create many many of these dresses so can we start by your motivation yes this like so I just people have I did not I'm gonna need stir it but yeah anything unchain honey theorem is launching and after you use you can see your financial life in history this isn't really optimal so that's been you know it's peaceful insurance to clean the point that's here to solve that but none of these solutions take it take privacy no working there and all this kind of symbiotic so it's here to do something on chain need to make provisions to handle things object okay add another layer otherwise not just undermine you know all the audits and after you put into you the plan your success of it doesn't so today it's gonna so we're pretty much cover eager and freshmen really got me what we're going to cover is how people wish to theorem and then how people free full of it turns out taste-making and then as we go through see how this certain patients will require significant that are made are many transforming so what this talk is not about it's not about launching cars their needs so I won't be like specifying its whether unique or parent adjusting I'm not gonna turn of that but I won't be you know saying I won't bring it up Austin if you have to talk but I want so interpreter no it it's one of us like these mysterious things about he really nobody understands why or how it works even on this expense so this is like their form of you what just like blocking on the apology book say about you know walls units a attack specifically iam the credits are from well generally people that's indoor meet up pinch so pretty much the you can pretend our it's made up of different kinds of notes depending on your resource defendants or their role in their network and he sort of not sneak up in pure vanilla so everybody's work if I'm in the server and the main focus of this up will be oh yes miss like notes announced transactions to you know work and out being immature transactions from the north so it notices on their pizza P which there's a set of four homes for managing different aspects of their friend Network so they're made up of a bunch of what opals are just like main unit developer ones um so our px is agency based communication protocol or message messages to communicate over it's encrypted and authenticated which only provides confidentiality I get into that a little bit over I'm just an uncertainty protocol currently what's the plate on a theorem is not a discovery things for our learn things each job specification with his fruits but I think you can orchid on used to know it sir so as its names needs not scare me they're not scary protocols for disturbing other pairs in a number this is something using only names team with like some changes and this is one more review a next opposite wire protocol service bus place the actual messages at present experience between each other significant achievement information depending on whether they're studying network their publications actions and whatnot none does the light give himself or fault which there's a protocol for those lists the Bisons to it it's what with the critical network without having to study entire chain so first we'll start with publishing teeth in top lane this is some straight court case inspect suspect on many people think the river so yeah so you know there's a table the sugar in our and so an easy way to propagate messages to all the pears in this network is that means if possible one of the many issues confusing concept is that a lot of these ossicles at least on what there's known as seven dusty it's not for me what this means that gossip in the other mirrors the receiver of epidemics and how the virus is spread and it's not gonna slice well I'll say it's like one of the issues between gossip is that a lot of techniques that people use for analyzing the spread of epidemics and viruses in nature can be applied in this conference as well in order to find who or here a message so that's one one issue we're publishing teeth here another issue is the current protocol has no ratings for an immunity so anybody could just analyze the chocolate and nurse it on on both ends of the north so don't listen to say your cell phone your wallet and then they listen to it so whole notes in the work to see if you receive your transaction being sort of poorly The Times and other metadata regarding your transaction sorry regarding your our transaction to destroy it somewhere whatever purposes they're giving this one so in other words publishing to you here is it dr. analysis mr. so you can also as an adversary yeah so you can create messages in such a way thank you packets in such a way that you can infer information about sort of the scene of the mobile and if it's a third time so yeah again you're listening on both sides and but this time we craft a message in a particular way so that at the other end Abin or look for the same pattern because this you profit up the packet you know what to look for you can look for the same use of patterns implementation impact of climate at the end of the number so that's another privacy issue for publishing people so different solutions to post not only mostly in the context of this one but this the proposals is sort of it you know to Iceland touching those news moving toward ITP notes which of those onion routing protocols that are very cool about them there's been a lot of research and the thing itself about the use of these in snow and stop somewhere Bob Jim so a lot of the paper of important that's in the meat of description in the baktun access policy by brian Harry it mentions that for one of the counties since triple step and that in the sense that it's possible for organizations and governments to the joint okay can you hear me now yes and it's the sound any better I think so yeah yeah okay yes uh yeah so there's some some attacks that can sort of be the representative tour or I hear that's not your life matters that compliment the protocol probably will not use affordable for public for it's for a precaution one should take when using for within my clenched and guides for every transaction in you son you need to create a new circuit and toilets means creating a new connection to port and that does cause like a significant user experience for many a few more users but for more price-conscious interest I don't think even might access them but it's ready to know this whereas it was just showing the connection because you're using the same circuit insert your minds by other actors on the whenever no way another issue with before is that it's not it's not this assistive world horrible practice of passive activities this just means that it's not as a sense against the an estate or any sort of government agency that has multiple knows in the corner looks like I said nerds on the throne for these resources so depending on the model boy your life and it may not be the best for the uses of that another solution that comes up a lot is that went bust was genuine plus plus was retracted in the context of pikmin and one of the main goals of its design was to sort of take advantage of Bitcoin secure infrastructure for the way they're flying notes on propagating incisions across the north which is also pacifist and instead it provides explicit justification sorts action so it pretty much also its advantage of what I brought up in a previous slide which is the epidemic which the groomer propagation of versing others operate in the world world one of the downsides mendelian us was is that it's only secure grants are very adversary so in the case of tour it's great in some local assets adversary but that money was present in at the second one and so depending on when these things or I'm sorry God uses affected by client this may not provide the best privacy very things rather than life is Leslie simple to understand and at the protocol layer that was one of his design goals so a lot of dip slightly ugly I've been opinion in another caveat with them lying is as it was designed for their kind specific in the wave different up against transactions some changes would need to be done soon some some parts of the purple tunic for different law and this they're not but the last night the project ran encountered some uh they're saying Jana mrs. Smith just said like as I remember we talked about yeah I was blessed yeah I was going to talk about wonder yeah yeah yeah so dandelion plus plus is not popular being deployed he talked about using a bird I'm simply because of this design that their client insults in terms you can typically in order to make sure that similar privacy their intense as proof in the paper and it isn't something that's pretty much the gist of what I was saying is that okay yeah so max is blender which this year it's on you can see and it's only a prototype hasn't no need to point any more because it wasn't it up I should have added a and you know this provides economists but as for for her credit credit that works well a time it's I'm working a typically face and the paper Gators are the Knights of the basements and also it provides two provisions for very reverent finishing people what they fall over into today this time one of the main issues with wondering some the costs that are associated with NPC and yeah compared to say anyway it's not as Jesus before but it means a second sea of particles where private facility as now we'll talk about sketching transactions form in theorem so like like lines in order to ensure that they're not something the transactions to whatever note image to make sure that it's in another direction they need to be able to verify that the trunk the one that the chain addition case at the correct chain and to wanna verify past transactions all right so any the popular mobile and even advanced in list of your past Spencer just admit it absent all that information and that's done in a corner like a chain so I'll go through some of the issues where some of the privacy issues so there's a part of its thinking photo hosting ethereal class synchronous for syncing it change with the for node and people take advantage of you think you're right about that I discussed earlier to this but yeah they're the way being missing resistance for the most practicing and then Elias has its own protocol it's also been some protocol but makes make some changes from low resource devices so effectively the waiting this work oh and I like that know that faceted needs and cognitive physical objects but if you can talk yeah so the gist of how things work is that first like a client connects to the usual methods to selenium prepare Miller and what I would do it will be quests um block headers II look at the total amount of cooking done on that block you know that's verified it work and then just pending wizard to Elias or one of these other safety protocols it'll store it'll ask for one more information ensure that you can verify all the blocks and it's done yes this is not done for every block it's done for every few it means few thousand blocks forget the exact number but in your cases of the other photo costs in Mexico and it's in the case of Elias the also or transactions and who wants I think that we all know you know how to save them time sense of transactive that we thought it whatnot you know mobile phones so the privacy issues were what made things for homes is that you can see who is doing the parade like I said previously the public elections are authenticated and encrypted now I provide confidentiality you can still see who's doing the query on the number provided that they're not using it I don't know where such as for a lot of girls and I'm talking being able to see who is doing what you don't see what they're worrying for so in the case of a like but you can see what blocks of they're interested in because these the blocks that they're interested in either have transactions that you've seen before that the wallet has done before so you can easily poorly addresses that belong to physical wallet the accounts in Augusta prefer to pick to go wallet and this yeah and then we can also see a unitary here not only do you see a sort of amount Stevenson or just transactions we're also seeing what kind of applications and since our doing so an example of this would be senior user who's missing one of the thin identity done and this identity though is somehow tied can feel like identity then an adversary can easily your this like on chain identity that's not to me accessible identity you know instead of the justice that's going by you this is vastly different a Bitcoin case where all you want all using Watson sector whether they own sentence that's a mutex owns and what if you have been spent or what not but it's the use case of being the walk consider what about the following pieces there's much more that we need from a Pharisee respectful about it uses on chain activity with what's been done at the military so yeah in this case this likes on chain application not wants to do you want to participate in such as a identity that of some sort using some an adversity the stick Matthews to these identities together at the never clear and stuff make a perfectly and even if they using with multiple different addresses on chain and using the mixers and um other privacy preserving tools the simple fact that somebody can just look at what you're being what you're pouring and derive a ton of information them rated it that way is I can say something actually aren't any solutions it's one right now anything room there's been as an academic work but the useless isn't like finds button for the data analysis so it would have to be changed or or some my premises and then the usual solution of one doesn't really help here because it doesn't hide the contents of the quarry it decides who is doing the work so yeah this is area of user that I think the people of this country and in this other work that's not directly up the water to block means that with me useful yes so sick who is like that matter and their pool is to build they item protocol it's not going to do I say it's a computational PR from privacy preserving eh speak words submitted potentially helpful but more privacy preserving not disturbing other such applications but how simple passes uh isn't work in progress but eventually people don't be able to get support in this library continues across the projects and they've been really interesting to see yes so I'm gonna have shown myself heard of it so I treated miss out a while ago and I was already working on mixed nuts and so recently I said it's work on PR but those of you don't know if your ancestral private information in school and there's sort of like two branches or PSR just occupational here and then there's information here but here yeah and they both have different trade-offs and different these cases opening new stuff I'm saying coffee control in your he argues interacting with a single server and the privacy is there to artists a certain cryptographic primitives whereas in the case of XP artworks in the multiple server setting and person is dependent on the servers and on basic information for order guarantees but in fact it's PIR hasn't even the point before we go that's an unboxing image here anywhere else so can I keep pulling these things for a block inside open and a fence that it's apparently I'm working on new song which is in it's not the difference in transactions it's not production ready but it is like status I'm running it right now and so our current work really focuses on reaching it easier to canoes and centralizing needs and components of the system supporting evening boxes the main opera testament estimates link Bengali I'm in Venice been urging the got a grandson servants and I'm fellowship and so yeah it's currently running it's quite hard to use as a user who wants in transaction over when we're currently working out so I can you tell me your insert and if you want to participate as you note and then a song it's also pretty far so you're working your chance to make that easier as well if you want more information you can check out a get up and not let other reports associated with the project list another thing that wasn't something started is area which is it meant to be low ATP our protocols it I just started our seats ago and it's meant to be sort of this general purpose library for prototyping just a wider audience someone sees it I try to make them work with their purity but the local for us is wanna separate I didn't some ideas around fetching transactions from you hear more presently so we want to go about it let me first it's a very protocols that we can experiment yeah so this is the incident as a project so yeah interested in getting more feedback then and stuff from users in my potential compass for their his face yeah so anything or almost there the end so you have the main to use our question stop I'll bring up things I couldn't even better leverage sort of how I feel works and how if you're up against transactions to create protocols that are more privacy preserving the reason for spreading it this way there's because kind of the player holding me or work takes long as somebody is firmly trying to deal with them that's not and it be interesting it's on now a lot of time to taste laser typically when they can the IP and you know sure to get four thousand you have implemented and it also be an interesting to be such fun for anybody who's a graduate student there's a modern puzzles in academia or things that can be applied here and hasn't that segue into being potentially applicable in in real life if you're in that scene is just one of publish papers but who wants them picture the work in the implemented so this is a good I've been waiting for that I mean in the second point is as I mentioned earlier execute of my only aid CPR but CPR or things are quite inefficient but there's been many advances in there PR a little beautiful little that that's combined together can potentially use for yeah that can be useful for what we know us so I'm interested to see the constructions of your hormones that I'm taking to conquer the nature of watching our works the rationality assumptions to trust assumptions and all of that and then they throw this out so those are like the two main research questions they're like two minutes the breadboard third the audience so in in conclusion so stuck for every scene is already hard on uh on a public watching if you sort of neglecting or looking there you know you can it better linkage to I mean it's unchanged well not completely but you doesn't mean destroy love with unchanged piracy mechanisms that are being applied especially between to put on something it's already piglet so a lot of that's what one with it and then the other point hearings nobody has been solved absolutely publisher very funny theater in terms of the academic research in this regard if your husband and equipment serve you an interesting to see I don't normally write about the actual privacy guarantees of the cramp hormones and it's an actual reporting sir let me that's that so that's the end of the off you can follow me on Twitter and I had a little bit so you can follow me you can send me you know I'm also on telegram it's just my first name Tara and I'm in of the semanas foodists awhile ago and it's to be updated since that's been up there in the key nine movies the sauce is good music so guys thanks made the iris own block things and yeah I think I better start hopefully helps you with more but they're from blocking sits the birth issues that occur reference in the works yeah that's the year thanks very much McAra so I've got questions for you I do you really are yeah yeah so the question is about ITP I are then you mentioned in this during during their presentation [Music] inflammation is private information retrieval and you mentioned that you recently have an infant project yeah that's really can you tell us more about that in terms of why people are specifically so the project very on is minutes yeah like I said in a little talk it's not to just be sort of this like library of popular IT I don't know if they're popular per se but well cited I think your articles so what else gonna say about it because you think well if you think it's it's probably the most applicable to this year and today right yeah considering that many people aren't really you don't really want to trust OneNote which you might have to do when they come here and also the pocket original pair of methods are quite inefficient today like the best ones all with our lightest base commodity as ITP are they gone with are like that kind of photography but they're also quite an inefficient on the server hmm but there's been some work that hasn't been open sourced or potentially may not know any code right back and be applied to like older your holes oftentimes these improvements are based on in old burns at seminal PR paper in 2007 and there's no limitation affair for that particular portable so our goal is just implement those portables it's just a little open source and the public so that you can help but here our research and it trying to apply this and in the conference that we want to apply this viciously retrieving transactions from it blocked in yeah I know I don't know what else is so so CC now you've also got some questions for you Wow would have to be closer to the microphone um all right let me think what's my question yeah it's can we give you know in a motivation part you mentioned that we have current we have rather function privacy solutions but they are like vulnerable to the network level in memorization and yeah can you give an example that like what kind of like like function privacy solutions then you say thanks yeah okay um so it's example today no attach this to point easily yeah so that's like from one of the most popular ones I think also good fight but they only provide potentiality they're gonna be providing in Anders like he's opting for phones that make claims about various wall right there so I can give an example to better illustrate some of the issues to just considering the unchain parts so in for example in 28 or - this is system of layers and your goal is the point of earlier sister apricots so that New Zealand English law their friends will make circle it only and just the being control your new so fractured rustics getting the funds and so for example a strongly committed these mayor's committee really the animals users so they can just listen to each of this mantra and and in quotes because it's technology they see a big massive room with walls and deposits on the tonight Oh Axl it's my contract and that's being were somewhat malicious taken its equal eight times with times with um deposits in its lies get some information that way and that's why you need to consider the network layer it's not good it's not good that's not what I'm saying frustrated CC yeah I think that answers the question oh yeah like I'm just reminding him like the questions that we discussed before because like you mentioned several research papers and like you recommended us to sort of like yeah when we take all the privacy of sorry internet connection and stable again okay when we tackle the privacy problems it looks like there are some primitives or like categories of approaches that we like use it very often like one pattern I observe is the mixer pattern we can mix the onion senders and receivers we can also mix the like option Network level TCP connections and what are some like other primitives like what's the toolbox for the privacy it's the question I wonder is the question understandable no I wonder if I understood the question so I guess I'll try to answer it and tell me if an answer so yeah a lot of sometimes when we're talking with privacy there's always like always bringing up tour or mixed nuts especially now against yeah because they seem to be the most saying silly things you know like network layer privacy but in the literature's are other solutions that have been proposed with like varying degrees of success and whether they've been implemented or adopted by any any butcher kopazar other industries those are seldom talked about because often times theme which is to an efficient at the time they were published so a lot of the innovations and even you know what's about it and like the 2000s and back then this was very niche people were using it so bringing in stuff into production it's never really happened so how can I say so yeah there's like a whole set of stuff that's been ignored but some there's something that I'm making a concerted that connects networks this work on easing networks like there's a blenders like a pc mac space protocol um there's there's more work being done to make APR more practical or that combines PR with he's like easier at these things yeah it is yeah the more modern wants to have it research applications they can the for right haven't been what like adopting hi so any of the truth or project does that answer your question just another way is there any other way to put it so that she claimed that she's gonna be in service yeah I think that's all I'm still question because it looks like um the the fear is still very innovative and there are new approaches but now it's more like those approaches some of them are like less efficient so we don't see like like a framework of tobots or yeah the kind of landscape yeah yeah i think that's the that's that answers the question any more questions uh any question from the chat box you can also just email me anything yeah alright then your message don't the army on Twitter since in height all right I think we'll stop here yeah um so so thanks thanks McAra for your time and thanks for getting up so long so I hope you can visit Taiwan soon hopefully this year okay well yeah why it's I wasn't a red light I like one pretty why was he here - I'm and so we would like to have you again I hope it's soon and I will see you in person and like introduce you to everyone yeah so thanks very much we will be doing another meet up soon yeah what do I know what Oh are we so she sees me has a lot of stuff going on I think we our next puppy band is the cost curve at at August yeah that's that's so carbon source conference it's like the biggest conferencing biggest open source conference in Taiwan yeah but that's two two month away but there's one event yeah she would like to announce so they'll have so the the next interest the next interesting is curated by aster from status yeah the head of engineering and he recently set up like created a group meetup calm which is papers we love Taipei and the group is about sharing interesting research papers so I'm trying to look for attachment so the date is June 11 Thursday 7:00 p.m.

in Taiwan time it's called papers we love Taipei and we will have asked status to talk about academia it's the that discovery protocol using and URLs are going to pick pick a paper to talk about its rather under 30 it's rather undecided