HackMoney x Design

hi everyone welcome to our design session that I'm hoping will become a staple of our ecosystem in terms of web for Education and we are going to run it as you've seen a little bit from the description we're gonna do two awesome presentations to begin with and then we're going to have an office hours now what and the way we want to run that is essentially any questions you have if you're halfway through building your project and you want a little bit of feedback on what you have so far we can potentially look at doing like little mini audits and so on and giving you the feedback that you that you hopefully need to to continue building the awesome applications that you're working on and so we're gonna start off with Sasha who's going to chat zero to hero and we're gonna do a little bit of a an engagement or practical exercise in terms of personas then we're gonna have Johnny from you port talk a little bit about identity obviously a key piece in in building decentralized applications and then we'll have Sasha and Ronnie and Amy and Julien basically collaborate on that office hours and hopefully give you guys some very very important feedback we're gonna kick off with Sasha should we give it another like two minutes I don't know because I see loads of people are coming coming in so yeah we're gonna do two minutes and also in the practical session when Sasha will will ask you some questions what we'll do is you're able to unmute yourselves but for it to all flow nicely and for us all to have good audio throughout I'd ask you to mute yourself as soon as you're done contributing or asking your questions so that we don't have any background noise and so on and I think we have Oh No um Heather I think Diego when we kicked him out he can't log back in because the things he's a troll we had somebody join a little bit earlier when we were going through logistics oh okay great just so we don't you know keep designed for terrible and we're also going to record the session so that for anybody who wants to reference it later and so on we're gonna share it hopefully on on discord or uploaded onto YouTube as well so we have it for for reference for future sessions what might be good I think is if you guys know let's just go in in order we'll just go with Sascha start with Sascha and then we'll we'll carry on from there does that work perfect so I start doing screen sharing take it away so your old guys seeing this right from zero to hero how to tailor your product for you for you your users right yes yes perfect cool so today's talk will be of course about personas designed to take use some persona creation process fundamentals after this course you will have a better understanding of your users needs and how might you build useful and satisfying products it will change the way you look at things and with some exercise it may change your perspective on the way you should kickstart a product so the talk will not guarantee you to be a UX designer but its addressing anyone who gives software product as a part of their work so what are personas a persona is a user archetype you can use to help guide decisions about product features navigation interaction and even visual design this is a quote and definition given by Alan Cooper popularly known as the father of visual basic who has built this UX design tool the first person I am the history of UX design appeared in 1993 she was called Cathy and she was a traffic manager for an advertising agency during Cooper's long walks he would fictionally talk to Cathy to find if what he was designing was still matching her needs so what is a user persona a persona is a fictional character which like in a movie has a goal set a purpose which tries to achieve is a fictional yet realistic description of a typical or target user of the your product a UX tool which helps you you designers learn more about your users so what are not personas user groups are not the same as creating the persona statistics and impersonal user metrics which are difficult to keep in mind those are not personas marketing segments masquerading as personas not at all is not a list of tasks or duties so persona creation processes go a bit through this ideally the persona creation process should be a part of the research phase for a product or feature before the actual design process starts so Phil studies surveys longitudinal studies interviews and any other qualitative methods of user research should be conducted first to define characteristics of typical users once user research has been completed personas and scenarios can then be derived from data so let's go a bit through the persona creation process think of it when finding similarities merged them together it's best done as a team not because it is difficult but because it will garner more support for the user personas from team members able to contribute to the process so it will not be like magic I'm the UX designer I go in a dark room and then I come up with this and look I created this masterpiece you put it pin it up like a peanut work of art so this is how you should engage your team eliminate any characteristics groups that appear less important to the business and once distinct rules emerge add details to make the character more realistic believable and memorable keep your personas set small have a minimum number personas required to illustrate key goals and behavior patterns there's no magic number but if you're designing the consumer product and you have a dozen personas then you may be making distinctions that aren't very important okay so for example if you're creating the electronic family calendar your persona set might include a career mom a stay-at-home mom the career dead-end a teenager if the career mom has the same needs as the career dad and also does all the family management as the state on mom does you may be able to eliminate both the tags and stay-at-home mom so let's go through personal creation chit chit it's a checklist so we can build a persona so come on pieces of information - including a persona should be name age gender in the photo but these aren't real demographics and there aren't important for this is just only to keep more realness for the fictional character a third line this is this means describing what they do in real life and you should avoid getting too witty as as doing so may taint your persona so I know it's fun and stuff but it's not really useful to get Whitley here experience level in the area of your product or service context for how they would interact with your product through choice or required by job how often would they use it do they typically use a desktop computer to access it or the phone or other device also map her goals and concerns when they perform relevant tasks speed accuracy thoroughness or any other needs they that may factor into their usage and some quotes to sum up the personas attitude add life to the personas but remember they are a design tool first so sometimes it's easy to focus too much on a person as biography personal details can be the fun part but if there are too many of them they just get in the way and to avoid this problem focus first on the workflow from behavior patterns on goals environment on attitudes of the personas without adding any personality and telling mistakes that are making the persona die in their infancy unfortunately are some of these personas were created but nobody used them the situation often occurs when people don't know how they can effectively use personas to impact their projects not everybody knows why this tool is useful so it is up to us designers to educate and educate our stakeholders our developers our team so we should illustrate the effectiveness of this tool skeptical leadership we already know our users of course everybody knows their users and stakeholders know a lot about their customers but personas can be a very good tool to define a clear picture of specific types of users and having a specific user representation saves us from designing for ourselves and debating long hours on what the user wants without real facts first saunas are created without involving the kinging the process and I was talking about previously that you should actually involve your team involving your team in the process of creating user personas doesn't mean that you will work shoulder-to-shoulder every step along the way you can invite them to the research process send rejects or activities undertaken in the persona creative process this will help your team empathize and understand the personas aren't just artwork from the UX team we already have a duck developer persona why can't we just recycle it and this is a very fatal mistake because organizations with more than one product often want to use the same personas over and over so unfortunately this doesn't work because effective personas mark must be context specific they should be focused on the behaviors and goals related to the products think of domain so let's create a persona together and now I will ask you to unmute yourself because I will use mural and I have put together a little persona mapping and I would love you to help me create this fictional persona so because we we cannot do interviews beforehand but we are all hackathon participants and we know what what this is about we are going to make a persona for a hackathon participant and the brief is like this virtual hackathon organizers want to step up their game so they need to find out more about their users goals pains and games and we will start with the persona just hitting an age putting a name putting a gender creating a tagline so I would really love you to start them to help me now okay what do we want to do just literally throw information at you yeah yeah we will start with age what do you think hackathon persona could be like around I don't know 24 27 30 let's throw an age here everybody you can unmute yourselves and and inform this map I guess we could be the millennial generation perfect 30 these so let's give it a name let's say mmm Jeff we have Jeff he's a participant he's dirty he's a male ring Jeff's picture don't worry this is not a real person it's generated by an AI so Jeff is completely anonymous and stays safe let's let's give Jeff some some tagline I don't know let's say I love participating at hackathons and this this you here you could help me because you know what's your motivation or things like that so I would love you to help me here let's give Jeff a tagline okay because they are challenging okay so we'll continue with Jeff's personality anyone want to help me here Jeff loves dogs okay Jeff loves dogs start there okay loves dogs he has a bubbly personality and let's say Jeff is catalyst in his book so if his sort of let's say early adopter let's go ahead and build Jeff's interest he likes attending each club hackathons perfect let's say he wants to find a VC maybe for his product could we say that or maybe he wants to find the team what do you think I think this should this should be more like goals interest solidity is just interested in these specific industries or use cases is he focused on supply chain stuff or is it a money finance guy or person we should we should we should add this here maybe he's interested in defy what else could just be interested does establishing credibility like as having his idea be established credible in the community count yeah but this might be a goal for Jeff his I think this is why he would go to the hackathons right to establish himself in the community am i right yeah that makes sense okay so let's put this here establish himself in oh let's let's leave the interest now because we have I think we have you know but let's cast our minds back a bit because we're talking about virtual hackathons so let's say he has this goals we could add another goal but maybe in fames we can say Jeff misses human connection and he feels like he can sell his product easier from person to person communication than virtual communication might that be a good thing a good pain point okay what other pains could just have towards the fact that he is now attending virtual hackathons and not in-person you have time zones that's a good point yeah good point access to mentorship or exit resources that's the hurricane access to mentorship I was gonna say pain okay perfect we're pretty certain he cannot access mentorship so this is why he's participating to two hackathons so somehow accessing mentorship is his and bill even though it's starting from a pain point but we will keep it here because we can turn it afterwards in an opportunity okay any any other pains that come into your mind well maybe since Jeff is you know he has a bubbly personality and he seems to be like a extrovert of sorts that these remote hackathons don't really give in that same level of networking and the serendipitous kind of it's all of that and I guess there's also you know just fundamentally less chance that he'll meet dogs as well since that's a thing so let's make a skill set for Jeff [Music] he's a very good communicator let's give him another skill he's keeping it himself keeping himself up to date with who Syrian frameworks let's see my does this sound good yeah I was gonna ask how how I know that we wrote that you know Jeff loves participating in the hackathons but is this his first or his tenth aetherium act on how new to this aetherium space is well we should we should think of this and put it in his context so maybe we we can say here maybe Jeff is an OG in hackathons or maybe Jeff has discovered these hackathons now so he might have different goals but apparently since he once we establish himself in the community and wants to find a VC he might be new right so we could say it's his first time okay so I mean are you guys writing in the chat because I can't really see it not too much there are a few comments so maybe maybe because you are participating to hackathons you could think a bit of yourself this is what we would we wouldn't do this usually is we're not our users but right now we all of us might have a ton of the insights you could help me with some other insights that you might have and we could build Jeff better what about his tech savviness it done some jeff has done some initial solidity tutorials but they're not let's say they're just beginning to learn perfect so could it be in Jeff's goal also to find more skilled devs and learn a bit Marc step up his game in solidity maybe has Jeff ever deployed a smart contract based on a brainstorm a bit here how many duck developers or smart contract developers would start doing a smart contract on the spot for a hackathon probably we should I know he may have written a smart contract at least one to see how it works before joining a hackathon no yeah maybe that makes sense yeah I was gonna say let's say Jeff he's played around with some smart contracts and like remix or something like that we've developed a bit Jeff and we know some things about him usually this should have been data-driven so it would have been after doing some affinity mapping going through the data we got interviews and pocketing characteristics together for this right now it's just like this is usually called a proto persona this is only based on our assumptions but we should actually afterwards try to really challenge our assumptions and two little interviews maybe get real at testing maybe gary like interviews but anyway we shouldn't stay with this type of proto persona because it's very biased from the start but on the other hand in a hackathon this would really help us to know who are we writing who are we building the product that we are doing so if this could be a good tool when you're starting a project for a hackathon maybe it's an idea you're brainstorming with the team this will help you a lot but never forget you really have to go through user research and user interviews afterwards and so let's let's go back to here so this is how usually a persona should look like afterwards this was made this is a tag developer persona made for a monitoring product and here he has some goals wants to be more productive wants to have everything under the same software strongly to order and pocketing even workflow his frustrations which are equally equal to pains he has too much manual work writing their own tests it is very hard to attract the output of the software into something more usable the possibility of an attack to be hacked is big and that is a big responsibility on the shoulders that I'm having these frustrations if you can spot this type of patterns then you have you can transform them into opportunities for your product and this means that if there is a need on the market you will come with something that will help people and because of this they will they may adopt better your product because they feel like you are actually doing something for them ok and I recommend you this book it's called UX fundamentals for non UX professionals it's a great book you can find it on Amazon and this is me and thank you for participating I hope you like this and I will stop my screen share now do we have any questions about personas yes that was awesome Sasha thank you and Derek say one of the most engaging things we have achieved in a virtual setting so far with all of the events going rituals so that was awesome yeah any questions on personas from the teams or from anybody um if not week one question yes dis furious at what point in the design process is it typically used like when you way before you've even thought of exactly how the products going to be framed or is it sort of an iterative you keep developing this person as you kind of include more features so you shouldn't develop the person while you include more features actually you should somehow try to do the features matching this persona so if it start doing the persona before you're actually developing the product and every time you work on a user journey or for a workflow flow or anything like that for your product you should somehow try to step in your personas shoes and think what would Jeff really go to a virtual hackathon again if he didn't feel like he can get his goals no yes and then you you're you keep on developing and iterating your product and try to respond to to his needs or her needs but it's very important to have actual data from real users and not fictional even though the persona is not a fictional person it has real trait yeah so I have a question this is banner so for our product we would have multiple personas and they would be various age groups so how do you deal with that but um it's I mean sometimes you don't age groups might only be just to make it more real sometimes age groups might actually affect the way a persona has its goals and needs so if you're developing I don't know a scooter up or let's think of something that is only for for elder people you might have it affected so I think you should have a core persona and try not to try try to make the product for a core persona because if you try to make it good for all of them you might end up with a patchwork toy employer type of product so you should definitely choose it very well and understand who really is your core user and who do you really want to address at the moment I don't really know more much more about your product except of the fact that you try to market it or develop it for a really big age range but I don't know more so I might if it's more like a decentralized Amazon okay so what are you actually asking me if that is a problem if you have more more type of many many age groups maybe you could think of accessibility if you have other people they might not see very well and they might be having technology angst because they don't do think I don't know they they don't have all of this knowledge so you have to think of them which are their goals which are their pains and try to shape it to make room for them to but think of it what what's the percent of the elderly and what's the percent of the youngsters if it's 80% youngsters and 20% elderly I think you should concentrate on the youngsters so sometimes you need to you have to win some and lose some you cannot make everybody happy so you have to make this decision and go by it okay I would say sorry to intervene like that and I don't know how much you want this session to be interactive with everyone else but I would say in your case being the age is not the issue your persona should be focused on why are people going to an Amazon decentralize Amazon right what is the problem they're trying to solve right are they looking to avoid the classic or the traditional Amazon platform why are they there and then think of the age and issues associated with age and goals associated with age yeah to build on what bogdan was saying I think one of the things that I do is well you know in addition to personas that I've put together is there's something called the jobs to be done framework that some of you might have heard of and I think that this is another thing you can add to your personas that can kind of tie disparate groups together and figure out how they relate so it and some in a lot of cases it doesn't matter so much what their age is as long as they have the same job that they're trying to get done so that job might break down along you know age lines right so you know 16 year old kids in America have a job to be done where they need to get driver's license and that's like a very age-related thing and in some cases age doesn't matter as much but I think yeah as bogdan was saying one thing to think about what job is are the people trying to get done and does that relate to age that's that's an excellent approach on your right there and here's the book if you want to follow the the script and I think you know somebody else asked when when is the right time to to build a persona the persona gets developed over time you start with the problem are you are you trying to solve a problem and you go after that problem by talking to people getting involved in their life doing all this exploratory research or what we call discovery and product development and that's how you build persona over time and that adds to the to the details of jobs to be done goals pain points and all that oh and Heather has linked the free mark in the trap so that's super helpful and does that also answer your question HK ish I don't know if you want out if anybody wants to take a stab at this one how do you decide between two contrasting personas if you don't have any data yet so like hardcore devs versus supernoobs just talk to someone I mean I think make one start with start with one person right and that that person will tell you if you're on the right track or not and then you go to the second one that's hopefully on track and you know over time you end up talking to a lot of people and then you develop the persona and the dimensions of the persona get more granular and I think that's important to understand that you you react to that persona when your product goes out you build your product and then you have people react to it you add more quantitative data more qualitative data through usability research interviews all that and then you change your goals you you might adapt your product you might pivot your company through those conversations so it's not a static thing it's not a thing that you do in you know June 2018 and you stay with it until you know July 2025 personas evolve and they should evolve if your persona is not evolving then you're not doing anything you're not learning anything more which is a big mistake as it might mean that you have stopped iterating and you think your product is done and it's never finished so yeah it's right then should evolve the product but also think that you're not staying the same from one year to another so how could a person ah stay the same so you have constantly have to talk to your users and update everything okay and we have how do you validate an idea if people are familiar with it whose people Kate do one - yeah yes so my whole thing is that I want to make etherium and using currency more accessible to people who aren't using it at the moment they are not interested in it is still confusing for them how do you actually validate the idea if there is the bridge is so big between the non users the users I don't think you can force the validation there and that's a huge problem for for the experienced person for crypto space in general there's nothing to validate there the only validation you get is do they understand it or not do they like it or not validation doesn't mean convincing the user to to adopt something it only fits when it fits into their mental model and I think that's another important detail to understand go ahead my hypothesis is that it is easy enough for me to make decisions and to use it then more people will use it so that's what our one who validates but what is the what is the main decision to validate what I've boiled it down to is that basically how can you grow your money because that's all people use crypto for what it seems is to growth assets that's a great so that's a great hypothesis formulating that hypothesis I want to grow my money right so you go talk to people and you ask them how do you grow your money do you want to grow your money and the answer is hopefully yes okay how do you grow your money and then you go okay I go to a traditional broker I go to I trade by myself whatever instrument I use financial instruments to grow my money right and then you ask okay have you ever considered if you're in have you ever considered crypto space no okay why and now you know you're getting closer to the problem why are you not considering lack of knowledge technical background whatever it is right but then it gets to the proof because someone will tell you well I'm actually I've been there and I'm not considering it theorem or any other crypto space because it's not growing my money at the rate I'm currently growing alright so that's a barrier you need to to pass and you need to show evidence right well I can guarantee you 20% instead of 8 percent or 10 10% you get with your broker but then you have to provide evidence because then it's in the context of but I see a lot of volatility when when is that person entering crypto space right how long have they been there what's their past experience because then you see personas along the way people that started five years ago and they're happy people that started two years ago and they're done why because I started with Bitcoin I thought it's gonna go to a hundred thousand I bought it ten thousand blah blah it's down so you are not solving that's that person's problem the pain point is still there I'm not growing my money what you're saying is against the evidence I have so again it's validating you can only validate as far as you as you match the same mental model if you don't match that then you have to convince and that's a different kind of tool marketing bla bla it's actually taking smaller steps oh for sure don't jump to you know five years from now we're gonna do this those road maps of five years from now are just a joke look at healthcare right if you ever worked in healthcare with any health care company five years ago they all had that thing on the wall the future of healthcare 2020 is gonna be the future of healthcare and look where we're now right hypothesis destroyed alright so don't you know small steps incremental development not five-year visions yes it's more like a GPS trying to autocorrect towards a vision but the vision keeps changing like the rainbow at the end of the other part of at the end of the rainbow thank you that makes so much sense um one thing I was an ad that I do sometimes is like in this case that is growing the money his is kind of the job to be done in this case I don't know there's also another book that I've been rereading lately called the innovators dilemma which was kind of came out in the mid 90s and was kind of on the front edge maybe I guess you might say before like modern product design and UX was kind of developed and used and this was like pre the Internet but in it he kind of lays out jobs to be done before it's called jobs to be done and he talks a lot about Clayton Christensen's the out there he talks a lot about the value of watching people use products rather than asking them about them and that when you're working with disruptive technologies that people have a hard time and this is what aetherium runs into a lot of cases they have a hard time imagining how they might use something and so you really have to observe them using either etherium or things like it right so they're not already a user of etherium so it's hard to get them to observe them doing it but the thing I think about is testing comparable products that are already in market that aren't your product to try and get insight so like something I would do is talk to Robin Hood users or something like that right where they have crypto present and find out how many Robin Hood users are buying 'if in addition to the other things that they're buying in that app right they you can buy traditional stocks and ETFs and everything in Robin Hood but you can also buy Bitcoin and aetherium and it'd be interesting to know from Robin Hood you know you know 10 or 15 Robin Hood users have they ever clicked on those aetherium and Bitcoin buttons in that app like why haven't they right like and you can pick up from another product teens you know product as a jumping off point for prototyping and gathering inside about what you want to do right so you don't retrace some of their failures and stuff like that so that's another way to kind of jumpstart the process I think now there is this is all about context contextual inquiry is a is a method of getting there but again you have to be close to the users you have to spend time with them as much as you can and be there with them experience the problem seeing the problem firsthand missing the context of how they're trying to solve that that's my approach and now I'm in lockdown so what now there are a lot of remote tools if you can recruit people to whatever Channel there are tons of remote tools where you can observe and discuss and and they have the time hopefully some of your users have the time to chat so you know use the opportunity to to talk more and discover more actually what you recommend the screener first of all and try a bit to think which might be the user you are targeting and then try to find them out because there are a ton of websites with people who are willing to respond and work remotely so it's not not a problem you can interview them via zoom and you can screen them and recruit them but it's very important not to talk to people who wouldn't be actually giving you any good information concerning your product and also you are saying something that you want to do you want to help people but people don't really ask for help so maybe we should take a step back and think maybe if it's not needed yet maybe I shouldn't do it I mean when you're starting something you should actually make it not because you fall in love with your idea or it sounds really really cool because there's I mean it happens to everyone but you have to validate it but not validate as in I like this that's very David how might I shove my idea of my users through so you don't have to do that just and think which are which are the pains and fears they are facing maybe this could paint you a picture yep you know I wanted to clarify that though I said I mean I think ideally the best case is quote-unquote to watch the user use the product I think it is also perfectly fine to talk still interview users who have used a product I think just the distinction that at least Clayton Christensen draws in his book is that do you want to not ask people about I mean you you I still believe it is valuable to do generative research like pre product building but you the real insights typically come once something has been in their hands and you are there they're responding to it and over time sitting with it they figure out how it fits into their life and I so that doesn't actually mean necessarily watching them like in a like in a physical setting watching them use the product although that is also really good if you can do that but simply talking to people who have spent time with a product or in a context and talking to them about their experience so they're not they're not speculating on what they might do anymore right and I think that that's the the important part because people end up speculating on how they might use something and then I think all of us typically once it's in your hands and you're using it day to day it turns out your own speculations about how you would behave are wrong and so I think that's the important part I think I think both you know Sasha and Johnny are right on such as side you want to target your research if you have a project that you want to get done target your users target your research at the same time talking to people that are not necessarily a perfect overlap with your product or solution or idea are a good source for generating new ideas right so you start with ideas start with the problem and then you realize well actually people don't experience the problem I'm posing they're experiencing a different problem and that's what solving for right so so you pivot from there and that's still beneficial it's actually highly valuable you think of all the companies that started with an idea pivoted and became successful Twitter included or whatever I think there are hundreds of casebook thank you awesome thank you guys do we want to move to Johnny and chat about identity I had one more small question possibly how often just like as a general rule do you revisit these kind of things as far as I guess it's good to keep them up-to-date we can't keep them up all the time can't revisit them all the time is there like a cadence you would recommend for evaluating your personas it really depends on your development cadence right what methodology you use what flavor of agile scrum Kanban whatever and how those tracks of development discovery design are layered and so if you if you just prototypes every two weeks then you might find out that talking to people every two weeks gets you in a different place and that's when you update after three four or five months of conversations and not just conversation let me make this clear interviews are not the only UX research tool out there and there are hundreds of them but by doing that on on constant basis you learn more so a rule of thumb update your persona when you learn something new but but keep a cadence keep a flow of research don't give up on it and yeah basically stay close to your users through whatever means you can as long as you can awesome thank you hi everyone I have a last question sorry for that and I would like to know if if you feed your personas with quantitative data if the problem exists already know for sure and you should write and so it depends on how you collect that data how good it is right so collecting data alone is not gonna give you a lot of answers you still have to process analyze that data clean it up and match it with real behaviors that you see in the real world right so looking at quantitative data in isolation is it can be very misleading because the data is not gonna tell you why right you can look at a lot of numbers a lot of Excel files and they will tell you what people do but they're not gonna tell you why they do it so understanding that through qualitative research is as important if not more but yeah combine them both no quantitative is just like red flagging the issues and then you dip dive with qualitative research I think this is what Bogdan was saying also does that make sense yeah sure sure totally agree do we want to move on to Johnny and he can't read identity and then have a Q&A round for him and then we can move into a need specific Q&A were many audits and so on Oh Johnny yeah so I actually a Kaiba screen yeah so I was gonna actually propose a bit of a pivot we don't have to but a I have I realized I had a presentation sitting here that I'd given that build east about a year ago about the ux/ui fundamentals of web 3 which might be more relevant to just being a design thing or we can still talk about identity but which is less design focused but what do you think does anybody care or is anybody think one would be better than the other because we can I can talk about identity all day and we could talk about a day after but also UX you guys this is the design thing and you're all are currently building stuff could be I just worry that maybe not everybody needs to know the identity stuffs and some of it might not have you know be relating to it but I just want to throw that out there in case this is a John they both sound interesting I was curious about the identity piece though because we'll have you know users that we want to have persistent reputations and have them somehow carried that identity across different places like if it's a seller they might be selling on Facebook Craigslist Shopify and their own website and like our you know global marketplace so we're not really sure how to handle that piece yet so I don't know if I can because on that alright well then okay let's stick to the plan I'll run through so my daily stuff first and if we I know that this is a pretty long session so we can always touch on some of the or I can just even give you all the deck a link to the deck and you go through it on your own time around the ux/ui stuff of web 3 okay cool let me pull up presentation see rapid here I hadn't thought I thought we were gonna end up hitting so I didn't have it open so let me give me a step into trying to the identity yeah we can make sure that we send them to to everybody who signed up I think that would be useful the decks I mean you Oh worries you hold on is the only one that one accidentally has about a thousand blank slides in it simple you I need the suspense is killing us sorry I've got it now rich so let me share just for this so I don't get me lagging or whatever um okay great so everybody see my screen good yes so yeah I work at you port which is a part of consensus so I've been working at the intersection of identity and blockchain stuff like that for about five years and working on identity decentralized I'll sovereign identity stuff for about three years and I'm a product designer UX UI kind of also design strategy stuff so kind of generalist in that sense and so for this this where I started this off the last time I gave this is I want you to imagine this is a new new product and development called defy credit and so here we have what it would be a login screen for something called defy credit so your seconds away from getting the best decentralized lending rates so one of the big problems we know in defy or a big use case is potentially or opportunity areas you might say is the ability to offer you know under collateralized loans and your peer loans like the traditional you know in the you know this is the type of loan we typically think in in the traditional world and we haven't been able to bring this to defy yeah Oh what you can do here you connect your meta Basques defy credit would like to connect to your account and so you click connect then you're gonna get a continue with Facebook button then you're gonna continue you know it's gonna ask you to login I'm gonna continue as Johnny you're gonna get a socially derived credit score here 656 you're gonna have this asset access to loan so however okay so this is fake this isn't a thing that we should actually do and I just used this to highlight the problem so this is something is was a mock little experience that I put together because I had seen this idea at a hackathon in the past which was to use social media stuff as a as a as a vehicle for creating some sort of credit score of some sort that we could use in the defy space but this is a bad idea and we'll talk about that so um so I wanted to talk a little bit about the reason that this is bad ideas I'm sure y'all are all might be familiar with Cambridge analytical so for those not familiar with Cambridge analytic 2016 in the 2016 US elections Cambridge at Ithaca was a you know a date and market research firm that worked with the Trump campaign they worked with the brexit campaign and specifically the leaves the Briggs campaign and do to draw some insight that they could from publicly available data for for marketing campaigns right so what would happen if this is what this screen said right there's a good chance that this will elect Donald Trump what if that was the big red box when you when you when you're about to connect your Facebook would this affect the user experience right my estimation is most likely yes this would affect people clicking on that button and this is where we get into ideas around consent and privacy that are going to be very important as we move into like a defy world so I wanted to talk about surveillance capitalism and identity and these are the things we need to keep aware of when we build our defy systems here so in the past the way identity kind of worked was you were given identities from service right so you might have your Amazon identity and your Facebook identity and these things were given to you this is what happens when you sign up right in the traditional sense you get to choose an email or whatnot so that feels like a choice but really as you know many of us probably here already know on the back end they're giving you an identifier that they are going to associate a lot of data about you with what we want to do because we want to invert this model so there's this interesting you know we talked about decentralizing lots of systems and we talked about decentralizing identity but another way to frame this is all sort of think about re centralizing identity around the user rather than around the servers in the systems so in this case identity is your you are giving your identity to these different services and the the flow of consent kind of or the power structure here kind of inverts so there's this concept called responsible ization which this kind of alludes to so responsible ization is just when a change in a system happens and the responsibilities that fell with one actor gets shifted on to another actor and so when you change systems this can this can happen and this if this happens without telling people and the people whose responsibilities are being moved around aren't aware because you know about you know about that change this can present a lot of problems so when we are you know the thing that breaks on chain stuff is putting personal data on chain so this is what is going to actually end up breaking block chains if we're not careful there is this gets into I want to talk a little bit about this paradox of privacy so the easiest thing in a lot of the early days of etherium the idea was to you know I think I talked to some of the what was the name of their project I can't remember maybe I shouldn't say but in the in the early days of aetherium there was a lot of people trying to do decentralized marketplaces decentralized airbnb decentralized Craigslist and one of the initial ideas for how to accomplish that was to simply make the listings as part of on you know on chain [Music] you submit you are listening to a smart contract and you get like an on chain listing of like your house or your car or something like that and then people can respond to that listing you know via via web 3 and this was turned out to be a non viable way to do this because of the personal identifying information that goes on chain and in conversations with some of those teams around that there was this idea that you know people actually don't care about privacy right if they cared about privacy they wouldn't use Facebook they wouldn't use a lot of the services that they use but this then kind of highlights something in behavioral economics called the risk perception gap which is relevant to trying to solve this privacy paradox as we call it around identity so the risk perception gap is is this idea that the way you kind of like frame risk is a is going to change the outcomes or is gonna change the way people behave in a given scenario even though the risks are the same right so this is something Daniel Kahneman and Amos Tversky they wrote about it and I think it what was it Thinking Fast and Slow is that their book I can't remember but one of their books they run they want a Nobel Prize for some of this research but a lot of people they will you know if you frame something as a opportunity you know if you flip a coin you can get five dollars or if you flip the coin you have it you have the chance to lose five dollars however you frame that even though the odds and the outcomes will be the same they will behave differently they'll either take the bit or not take the bet and I think that this is a little small insight that we can use to start understanding how to get around this privacy paradox especially as it relates to adapts and on chain data and things like that so there's this thing that a lot of people say you know whenever I bring up privacy too many people in user interviews I hear a lot that you know this I've got nothing to hide so why should I worry so we also have heard in in those same interviews when people tell us that they've got nothing to hide me and my former design partner we did a lot of research around this stuff and hold on one second time to get this chat window I had a few so I can see this whole slide okay so we heard that if you know Facebook they would tell us Facebook has my data you know I'm okay with it but if Facebook is selling it to someone else I'm uncomfortable because I don't have control over it and so this kind of led us down this path of you know what people will really care about is feeling in control and having some agency in these systems and they'll make different Troi is based on whether or not they feel like they're going to have control or not not necessarily directly about the privacy and the specific information being disclosed in design in UX there is a field of will a set of patterns I guess called dart patterns and so dark patterns and UX are things that have kind of arisen in application design or service design that are that are designed and done so for the benefit of the system or for somebody other than the user right and one of the most prominent ones that especially the one that relates to what we're talking about now is something called privacy suckering as based on you know mark zuckerberg and this is what i was showing off in that initial set of slides around that mock defy product which was that was privacy suckering so if we if I went all the way the back up see I'll do that really quickly just so this connects so if I go all the way back here what this is saying right defy credit this little this little piece of text here is actually what you're consenting to in this step so defy credit will receive your name profiling for me and friends lists friends profile information paid page likes and email address that little that one bit of information friends profile information was what cambridge analytic exploited when they ran their whole campaign so what they did was they actually add a personality quiz that they put out and people on facebook would sign up to take this personality quiz and they would answer questions about themselves and give it access to their profile information but the way the Facebook API worked you actually could consent to giving that application all of the information that you had access to you're friends right so if they had made things public to you you could then make it public to this app and people were just out of almost muscle memory you know hitting this continue as Johnny button and consenting and not realizing what they were consenting to and this is the exploitation of this dark pattern that allowed you know so much more information to be gathered than anybody thought was happening so this would be a violation of informed consent on the on the part of Facebook and the app let's jump back animations so yeah that's that's privacy suckering and it is and it's these dark patterns that make design a moral act right so the fact that you can design things in such a way that is harmful or exploitative means that's now when you design your applications there is some moral component right the choices you make have like a real effect and can cause harm which they are not simply just arbitrary objective choices and you know in a case where you might say well who's to say what's wrong and what's right here it's ultimately the user who has to decide right but we know that the way you frame things and the the way you set things up in an interface can you know exploit people and this is this is why we are mad at you know services like Facebook or Amazon or Google a lot of times so what we also want to you know I would recommend us to think about is that privacy is actually a spectrum it is not you either there's no such thing as pure privacy there's no such thing as pure anonymity right even in theory em we don't be you throw around the term anonymous a lot but really you know it your pseudo anonymous and or pseudonymous I mean and what we can do is start to keep our privacy as this spectrum and moving along it and moving backwards and forwards along it in any given context so that's we really want to give users control to move along this spectrum is the ideal that we're shooting for this brings me to this idea of contextual integrity around identity and this is Helen Nitin Baum is the researcher who kind of talks about this and it's the idea that textual integrity textual integrity is this idea that it is about information flows and what was agreed to as what is the purpose of the information how is it going to be used under what context for how long and it's when one of those inputs or variables changes that you violate contextual integrity so it's less about it's less about privacy being this like monolithic thing and more about the way information in a system is handled over time and what was agreed to when you interacted with that system so you have the data subject you have the center of the data the recipient of the data the information type and the transmission principle that you need to think about don't get too caught up in this I can send more information out she has a lot of research on this so moving forward there's also some really interesting research around framing again this is this framing idea again and it was done by a researcher last name a Christie I forget Alessandro I think acquis ste and he was doing a lot of research around how to get people to make different privacy decisions based on perception even though the privacy risks and things like that would be the same and this is kind of relates back to what talking about in personas when we were talking about asking people about how they might use a product versus how they actually use it once they have it in their hands and why one is more valuable than the other so a lot of times in privacy research we we ask people hypothetical questions what would you do in this scenario and hypothetically they say that they would protect you know they value privacy and then what they actually do is they and that's what that is represented by this so if you look at hypothetical and then you look at down here in the bottom left corner bottom left quadrant objective so we typically ask people you know if if we can state the privacy trade-offs as objective like this is objectively worse privacy or objectively better privacy when we ask them hypothetically what they'll do they say that they'll preserve we'll take the privacy preserving option but when they actually put in the situation they don't they take a convenient option because these things are typically at odds and that that those bottom two quadrants are what we call the privacy paradox but what Alexander Kweisi found or Alessandro Christie found was that when privacy when he did the privacy research and he framed things relatively and so this means not telling people if this is a better or worse more or less privacy but if this is more or less privacy compared to your past behavior relative to what privacy you have now that actually in the actual systems when people interact with them that they actually preserve their privacy and so this was a little insight that I think a lot of people in this space that are working on you around privacy are trying to figure out how to apply in mature going to market products how to frame privacy trade-offs as relative to that specific user so that we get this up arrow in the in the actual column so that's that's the goal there's a I want to talk about so consent so when we we've removing away from in the past I guess what we had was implied consent right so this is what happens when you sign some you know Terms of Service or privacy policy or its you know in an app you're doing a login flow or a signup flow and it says by continuing you agree to our privacy policy in our Terms of Service right that is implied consent you're implying that you can send to it out actually making explicit consent we have since tried to move to informed consent this is you know still in progress I don't think we've done a great job of this but it's at least kind of what you know when you read the New York Times articles and a lot of that around all of the privacy problems on the Internet today they're typically advocating for informed consent but I think what's the the real way to solve this at the UX level it's going to be through what I'm calling progressive consent so this was originally presented at Def Con this this presentation and this is kind of some stuff we are working on at U port it's not no longer actually specifically relevant to our product anymore but at the time these were prototypes we were working with and the idea here was that you Burt had this we had this idea of selective disclosure where you every time you interact with an ood app you can disclose data for that interaction and here we were going to allow you let's say this was some you know decentralized ticketing app the DEF CON was going to use or something like that you would be able to consent to each piece of data right that you were sharing with the DEF CON so you could you know click on these things you could share your data then we wanted to allow users to update their preferences so this was the the there's this trade-off here around progressive consent where you it's a burden really a lot of times people don't take advantage of the privacy options in applications because it's a burden it's overhead it's a cognitive load as we call it and people really want the convenience or trying to get their job done right and their job typically isn't I want to preserve my privacy their job in this situation is I need to get into different DEFCON I need to share my ticket to the organizer so I can get in so we want to build we wanted to build a system that allowed you to progressively build up consent kind of a consent system of preferences so we were going to after you share you know every time the first time you share a piece of information you're talking about your you're able to select things that you would like to share you know mark as shareable in the future and things that you wouldn't you want to be asked every time right to streamline some of these selective disclosure processes over time these are just some more screens I'll run through let me see what's happening in so the just to recap says the end we have we want to move to progressive consent we want to give users a sense of control we want to figure out how we can frame privacy decisions relatively and privacy preserving having privacy preserving defaults is important and allowing users to build their privacy preferences over time we have a demo that's actually still I that you Portlandia dot you port dot me it's where you port has undergone some changes in the past year or six months so we're actually moving in some different directions but you know this is still live so if you want to check it out you can but yeah that's that's the end of privacy and identity there's a lot of other things around identity that I'm happy to talk about and take questions on as as well specifically around you know decentralized IDs and verifiable credentials and storage of stuff like and stuff like that on chain verifications revocation all of that stuff we can talk about too and then we can also talk about more designing stuff as as well but thanks for bearing with me as I as I ran through that well thank you Johnny that was awesome do we have any questions specifically about the identity or privacy piece so I about beta that when and automatically beyond rain so the way you approach buildings applications a lot of times just for cost reasons is keep as much off chain as possible and only keep the stuff you really need to verify on chain because your gas costs are gonna pull you out of the water but you know have you seen any good approaches for having some kind of like a hashed or encrypted version of like a bunch of off chain data that you could selectively reveal and then prove that somebody could show like hey I have this degree and I like friends with these five people and that's not just on chain visible to anybody but if they gave access to a particular other person they could check some hash that's on chain and verify that that is accurate I'm not sure what the best patterns are for that yeah so that's essentially what you port has been trying to build and figure out for the past 40 years and so one I would definitely just like look into our our stuff but there's also teams that are doing very similar things that you can look into three box as well but this is really gonna come down to the thing that makes that process work is did decentralized IDs and verifiable credentials so in the scenario I think that you're laying out is let's take let's take the University I want to prove that I have a degree so I went to University of Texas so I want to prove that I have a degree from University of Texas so that I can join who knows let's say some Dow for for alumni or something like that the University of Texas what they can do is they can publish their since they're a business and or an entity or an organization that doesn't have the same types of privacy concerns as an individual would it's no problem for them to publish their decentralized ID on chain right or in some public registry and so they would have their public key published you know ax you Texas IDI use this is a is actually a method that we proposed to the w3c called web did and so it would allow you to host your your public key and they did according to the did spec at a URL at a domain and so if you believe that the people that run the University of Texas is website are really the University of Texas and they haven't been hacked or taken over in some way or lost or transferred their hosting or something like that then you should be able to trust the signatures that come from the did at that domain and so what we would do is you know on chain that is your your did is a like an aetherium address appended with a method that is specific to what never did suspect you're using at you port we use something called ether did but the three box team they came up with something called three ID I think that's what they're using or they might be using some other did method their sovereigns there's IBM's but you host it at you Texas dot edu and now they the University of Texas could issue their diplomas as credentials they sign a statement just a JSON blob essentially in a specific way they sign it and they sign it with their public key they send it to you I store it on my phone or in you port an identity wallet of some sort and then I go to this Dao this you know this dab and it asks for this you know using our libraries or somebody else's libraries you can request that disclosure of that verifiable credential and that pops up on my phone I hit share and now your DAP can verify that one this diploma credential is about the person who just shared it right because it will be the subject in that verifiable credential little subject line will point to my public key which I will sign with my private key when I transfer you this there potential but then you'll also be able to verify the signature of who issued it to me by checking on chain for their what is called did document the University of Texas is did document and now we have a way to move trusted data between parties off chain but in a decentralized way it's the only thing that's really on chain is the rules about how to consume and interact with a specific did so these are the dip methods and then the actual public the public keys are aetherium keys so those are anchored on chain but that's really the only stuff that's on chain but it allows us to move trusted verifiable data off chain and have it be used in that context and whatnot so I hope that answers your questions yes thank you do we have any other questions on identity or we can move towards the very specific Q&A were like mini session with feedback for for your projects kate says yes do you want to get a started kate so i am actually a little bit conflicted because i don't know whether i have a question or not but it's about the provost and I've been the whole purpose of ethereum and decentralization is to bring it quality to everybody and now there's all this legislation for all the banking and wallets where you've got it okay I see how do you reconcile the privacy concern and putting personal data chain because like with crypto they take biometrics so it's kind of very specific and personal information and still remain decentralized so I'm not sure if I should be asking that question or should I just run into my project and show that well we can definitely look at your project but at a high level around kyc that mean this is the use case that we've worked on again for a long time it's added super tricky I'm not gonna gonna lie like kyc the problem of needing to do kyc is it's a big it's a big regulatory and you know jurisdictional problem more than it is an aetherium problem right so aetherium can I mean aetherium can offer defy and do all of this without doing kyc right it's not an actual technical requirement but if you don't want to get arrested or shut down or fined for running your etherium app and you want to play by your jurisdictions rules you have to do kyc so but and so that that that just automatically limits some of the you know high-minded goals around equality that's an accessibility because you know lots of people can't perform kyc because they don't have access to real world government recognized identities so we were just working on a project with the Red Cross in Kenya for aid refugees or aid recipients and refugees in Kenya that don't have identity documents right and what we were going to do is you know the read the project has now since been like postponed and everything because of the kovat stuff and we couldn't go there and get on the ground and build stuff so it's on hold but the idea there was the Red Cross can could issue an identity to these recipients that is just used between between them between the Red Cross and the recipients so now they could read cross basically would do their form of kyc now in their case they have special rules around they don't have to they don't have to rise to the level of like a banking application because they are a humanitarian and geo and stuff mate and and they're also in Kenya which is a different jurisdiction but you can essentially essentially what they're doing is they're verifying an identity you know doing kyc of sorts knowing well it's more like knowing you're a recipient than knowing your customer and they're issuing them a credential that is not on chain but is stored on a Seether a smartphone but we were also getting into the space of storing these things on feature phones it also smart cards and lots of stuff for low connectivity areas and essentially now what these refugee refugees or aid recipients can do they can go to other you know maybe it's a UN camp or aid station and they can present their Red Cross identity to them and this isn't an official identity but really what we're trying to do when we verify identities is it's more of like a probabilistic trust thing where if it rise like the KYC thing is like an artificial standard of trust its appart its pushed on companies when maybe you know in the Red Cross the situation they don't they're happy to give you aid even though they haven't checked every single database around the world for your identity but when we're working in like so that that that's all to point out the fact that KY sees like this artificial kind of construct that we take for granted because it's just been around for so long so we also worked on a project with in the UK with a company called on Phaedo and some of the banks there was called the FCA regulatory sandbox and we were trying to build reusable kyc and so what you could do here is I get KY seed and yeah I think you could you can do this today so this is something to look into if it's relevant to your project which is you can work with somebody like on Phaedo which is an identity verification service it's who coinbase uses you can get on Phaedo what we were working with was we were you know we were working with on Phaedo to use their sdk so you have an app you go through there to take a selfie upload your passport or driver's license they run a kyc check well then they issue that check of you passing kyc as one of these verifiable credentials to you to the user and then the user then presents that off chain signed data that data that's signed by on Fito presents that to something like coinbase or whatever other exchange or other application and they don't have to be KY seed again right they don't have to they've done one last kyc and they can be KY seed for the entire jurisdiction of financial products that are operating in the UK wouldn't that be centralizing the information and that would be one entity storing all the personal information and that makes it more risky well so on feed oh well this is this yes and no so like because of the laws on feed Oh has to store the user information that's just the law right the law forces centralization but it doesn't have to be this way you know once they once they attest to the fact that this person has passed the KYC check they just need to sign that statement issue it back to the user and they theoretically if the law didn't require didn't require them to keep the data they could just delete the data right and not store any of the data not have any of the liability around being hacked or you know acting in you know nefarious ways they could just run the check delete the data issue you the credential and now you can use that reusable kyc wherever you want but the laws are in the US and in the UK and then the rest of the EU are such that if you're doing kyc you have to store the user data of who you've KY seed for at least five years I think it is five to ten years depending on the country and so until that law gets changed we won't even though technically we can do decentralized privacy better privacy preserving kyc today the laws haven't caught up and that's just the you know that's just a situation that we're in I think lots of people are arguing that you you the reason that they were having these companies store this stuff was because these technologies that we're taking advantage of now didn't exist yet right so they had to have a record that company had to have a record of to prove what happened during that person's kyc process right and now all of that could be stored with the user signed and sent to the user for them to store on their own side on their own on their phone or in some encrypted web storage of some sort and that is where we would like that's where we're trying to push this whole system industry towards but the law just doesn't allow for that yet thank you yeah I think - in my mind I still don't quite understand it because to me the problem that the blockchain solves is exactly that you don't need the KYC and you don't need all of that and now it's like we are trying to do I don't know if you know waterfall this is agile but the two are apparently two different opposing ways of doing things and I cannot go inside at the same time and to me it feels as if that's what we are trying to do with forcing the old methods onto the newest system yeah yes I mean I agree and this is this is why at least the UK government Cree this pilot program the FCA sandbox because they were I think FCA stands for like financial compliance authorities I think um but they were trying to you know they were hearing us talk about this and saying that it is possible to do kyc and all of these things in ways that don't force these bad privacy outcomes on to society and they that's that's what we were experimenting with so maybe the laws that on the verge of changing I don't actually know if that pilot program and that whole thing that they were doing actually resulted in any new legislation being proposed but um generally the feedback when we ran it was good and it seemed like the authorities and regulators are starting to one just fundamentally be aware that these things can be done and also understanding them to the point where they feel like they can trust them enough to write laws that change the laws to say if you're not running one of these decentralized it's just like now you know hopefully the law will be either you can do one of two things you can issue the verifiable credential issue a verifiable credential of that kyc data back to the user for them to store or you can store it for five years but somebody has to store it right and publish maybe you know there's ideas around building a private chain for regulators that kind of is like a side chain to a lot of stuff where you might publish the hash of this interaction between this did and this regulator or this are on Phaedo or identity identity verification service you might publish the hash of that interaction on to this private chain and it can be referenced only by only regulators can view that because there's still gdpr stuff around publishing hashes of private information you and you can't even publish encrypted information on chain but hashes are a little bit different and I think the legally it's still up in the air how that how that's going to come down as to whether or not that's allowed so there's still stuff to figure out but it seems like things are moving in you know in a way that well I mean you could always just you know there is this idea of like I think auger did this or some other apps which is you just make it you just put the dap out of your control and then what are what are authorities going to do right you remove your ability to control the system and then so you could build adapt today that uses decentralized kyc ignore the laws and you know take your chances with the authorities once they come once they come knockin right but because it's not a technical problem you can get to the level of trust you need to do a lot of these financial use cases it's really just how much of a fight are you looking for with with the authorities at this point did anybody else have any questions about the project I know Rama did you mention you were working on a project that focuses on privacy or anything like that I'm not sure I thought I printed earlier I had another question about context switching so you have different I guess personas in life and specifically for our project you might be a buyer on a platform where you might be a seller or you might be a seller that has multiple different stores and you would switch context by switching wallet addresses but I don't know how to really do that workflow like if you don't want to tie your buyer address when you're looking to buy something to all of your history as a seller just for whatever reason um you know have people thought through how to do that in a way that is only a couple of clicks and I can't yeah so I can't say that this is like if y'all were gonna build this you would be forging a little bit of new ground but again it's one of those things that seems to be theoretically possible in a older version of you port we had what was called apt specific accounts so we had a route did and from and we use you know like an HD key you know a hierarchical derivation of keys and we would generate new aetherium keys for all of the different apps that you use and these would it be and we would store do some you know smart stuff in the back end of the users app where we would just remember that this is the daftness is the key used with that dap and stuff like that so but the user didn't realize that they were generating new aetherium keys for every new debt that they interacted with but and so what we could do is now you're able to share your let's say your kyc credential via this aetherium address with crypto kiddies and via this aetherium address with you know yuna swap or whatever other DAP right and they don't those two apps don't see the same aetherium address now but you're able to use your verifiable credentials one the same verifiable credentials in both contexts even though they're running I guess through different aetherium addresses so even a swap sees this aetherium address they look on chain you know they go to ether scan or whatever and they see that there this is like a fresh aetherium address with no history but they can the the person using that aetherium address has authenticated themselves via that kyc credential that's not on chained to them and the problem becomes really when you want to start moving money around right so that's using off chain credentials can preserve your privacy and allow you to use lots of different aetherium addresses and sign up for lots of different depths without any correlation risk the problem becomes when I have a bunch of money in this aetherium address and I need to use it across all of these different depths and so now I have to move my money from this central wallet of mine to all of these new contextual wallets and that then provides the correlation risk so that's kind of where everybody got it got hung up but now with things like I don't know like tornado cash and ZK died and what aztecs doing and stuff like that maybe it is possible now to also make the movement of those funds private enough to where combining verifiable credentials generating aetherium addresses on every interaction and then running the funds as you transfer them between those and nura Inter's addresses through a mixer you could probably put the system together in a at least a way that's better than anything that's happening now Thanks you any other questions or projects that we're building on and jordan has joined us as oh sorry Jordan you were literally just taking a sip do you want to quickly introduce yourself as well because you joined us a little bit afterwards yes sir so hey I'm Jordan I work on the yes product and design team that maker um and yeah that's really about it been there for maybe two not three years um so yeah seems really the evolution of the the I guess design had a crypt out of space yeah well any advice you would want to give our builders back money based on the observation of the evolution of design in the past two or three years yeah that's a good question I think I think unlike yeah it's similar to like any type of product right or like designing for any type of product I think really focusing on or really understanding the situation that whoever what whatever user you're building for designing for is in is really really important and specifically what I mean it's like I think people generally take like this notion of like a person using adapt or something and like they're just this one general person and this is not true right like there's different people in different circumstances and really understanding that circumstance is is really really important so for example like if you're someone using died like there's people use die for different types of things at different types of situation and situations and like really understanding that situation will allow you to like really be intentional about the different types of features or different types of elements in the UI that that may or may not be important to user well yeah we covered personas with with Sasha earlier on in the session and I think we had a lot of different questions around those personas and you know how to decide on what the main persona is when you when you build right if you have to pick when you don't necessarily have a lot of date so that's that's been a an interesting element of our discussion I don't know if the guys were still I'm aware that this is like a very long session so I know that some people have messaged me that they have to draw because they have other calls or or engagements I wonder if there are any kind of main takeaways or tips that you guys would have and I'm talking to to you know Johnny Sasha Jordan Amy for for these guys they're halfway through the hackathon now or anybody building I guess what would be the main things to to keep in mind or one key bit of resource that I know again we've shared in the chat some very cool resources that we'll also share with all the participants that signed up we just want to absorb all of your knowledge essentially this lets happen actually I will this would be like super quick but let me just and I'll share this you know I'll it's in my local keynote so I'll need to generate like some keynotes share link or something but see can you see this visibility of system status so one thing I'll share is that there's this idea of usability heuristics from Jakob Nielsen I went through and I kind of showed how these things might apply to different crypto scenarios and and Ford apps and so these are things like just you know rattle off the ten things to think about and again I'll show you this presentation is visibility of system status so you see this a lot in you know meta mask right pending states and stuff about around transactions matching between systems in the real world we see this idea of like signatures and I think what I have here the system should speak the user's language with words phrases concepts familiar to the user rather than system oriented terms which is a huge problem in most crypto stuff and follow real-world conventions making information appear in a natural logical order so an example of this is you know a message portion of when you signed to log in or whatever to crypto kitties with meta mask was the first time I had seen them use that message section to actually do some copywriting so they actually brought their brand through here rather than it just saying some standard very technical crypto the you know BS if like we need access to your wallet so that we can do X&Y and you know get your public key and all of this stuff so that was a good idea I would also recommend you know there was a team for a while at consensus called Rimbaud which was a design systems team in addition to their like react component library and their figma file with like a lot of the pre-built components they also have these guides for certain common crypto things are just around UX of like things to think about when you're designing your your gaps so I would recommend that as a resource other third one user control and freedom this is giving the user choices so here's coinbase wallet it's allowing you to you know backup now remind later don't show again so we often see this also doing it the wrong way in crypto is like you make users like can't even go to the next screen until they write down their 12 word seed phrase right and that's like super annoying because there's no money on these keys yet you don't even know if you're going to keep using these keys so I think giving the user the choice there is something to think about consistency in standards this is stuff that in our space is really hasn't been settled on a ton right like we call things gas or fees or network cost or whatever and so those standards are still kind of emerging I actually don't know what the standard is around like gas right now so meta mass was calling them transaction fees and they did this the standard effect a slow average and fast right some people use sliders and stuff like that but that's something don't be on the lookout for is like what is the standards that are emerging around some of these patterns error prevention so this is something we had in in you port at one point which was if you don't if your app has if this is the first time that you are interacting with this with these keys this public key or public address on aetherium so some nude app or whatever if we were also doing a black listing thing but essentially you want to prevent errors before they occur I guess is the general theme of this and you see this a lot in like you know like Chrome I would say like in Google Chrome and you navigate to a questionable website whose certificates for their website aren't matching or whatever it says are you sure you want to do this so that's and this obviously the stakes are higher in that world because you get your money drained and all of that so something to think about their recognition rather than recall you want to minimize people's cognitive load so I think what is to say minimize the users memory load by making objects actions and options visible the users should not have to remember information from one part of the dialogue to another instructions for use of the system should be visible and easily retrievable whenever appropriate so here you know is an example of all of the assets that you have access to in your meta mask wallet so you don't have to remember that you have however much air swap token or however many crypto kiddies it's allowing it's bringing that to the surface for you so you don't have to remember any of that right so I've seen other wallets where I've seen other wallets where you have to like manually type in the assets like you know a little ticker symbol I guess I don't know what these abbreviation so like ast or whatever this has been something I think a lot of wallets have solved but you know something to think about flexibility and efficiency of use so accelerators unseen by the note by the novice user may often speed up the interaction for the expert user such that the system can cater to both an experienced and experienced users allow users to tailor frequent actions in you port this was something around that I was talking about earlier around setting up your preferences as you go so as you become an advanced user you're selective disclosure actions become more efficient you might see this same type of stuff as abilities to set preferences on your like gas estimation and speed right so you owe it you can just set it too fast every time or slow every time and these are things that you would build allow users to build inside of your product over time that make it even more and more usable as they go on aesthetic and minimalist design I think we're all familiar with this this is argent they do a really good job I you know just putting you know not a lot of distractions so dialogues should not contain information which is relevant to rarely needed every extra unit of information in a dialog competes with the relevant units of information and diminishes their relative visibility so there's this big fallacy I think in web design digital design around like the three click rule I think which is in the idea is just reducing the number of clicks a user has to make is better user experience and I would argue that I would use as many clicks as it's better to use more clicks and constrain the information on every screen to very easily digestible pieces of information that they move through in some logical way so if you have to tell them three things you can put all three of those things cram it all onto one screen or you can put each one of those things on their own screen and I would actually argue that that's a better idea even though it's more clicks it helps with the cognitive overload that a user would experience that's really important during onboarding I would say so help users recognize diagnose and recover from errors we see this a lot again this is meta mask you know if you have something pending or stuck the ability to go over to either scan debug what is happening you know trying to tell the user what probably went wrong all of that type of stuff is stuff to think about and then finally help in documentation which relates to that so even though it is better if the system can be used without documentation it may be necessary to provide help with documentation any such information should be easy to search focused on the user's task list of concrete steps to be carried out and not be too large so this you know again crypto kitties at one point I haven't used it in a long time but they had you know the tutorial to help her text kind of embedded in the experience and you see this a lot with like first-time UX and mobile apps where the user experience is kind of embedded in your first use and you're actually using the product rather than reading about using the product which i think is is helpful extra stuff Fiat on-ramps ramble has some tips on that which could be interesting for a lot of your apps distinguishing between on chain and off chain data I talked about that in the identity talk so I want to talk about that again here progressive decentralisation is an interesting concept that I think a lot of designers have been talking about where like you don't have to force the user to be completely decentralized and self sovereign on their first use you can kind of guide them through this progressively over the course over the lifetime of their product so maybe you are managing their keys for them at the beginning and then giving them the ability to manage their own keys and then being giving them the ability to set up like some social recovery and stuff I think burner wallet stuff does a good job of this right where at the beginning you have this like precariously managed key and then you can if you get money on it or if you have money on there that's something to lose you can push the user to now take more control and migrate that money to a better secure you know wallet and I think that is it and I'll send out these slides but those are just some tips generally for build all sorts of taps and whatnot that's super helpful actually and you're right there's so much because I remember just doing things like onboarding newcomers and then you kind of onboard them onto one wallet and then you mention oh there's this other type of wallet and then suddenly they're like wait what why why is that one safe and that one is that what do you mean before so being able to do that gradually I think is less of a shock to the system right where you're just like you're introducing all of these new concepts for me what am I even supposed to do yeah I was I say I actually like I don't know if anybody's used it but coinbase right is you you get started with crypto and it's completely centralized custodian way and then they have a feature in there that pushes the user to move their aetherium to the coinbase wallet right and I think that's a good little little pattern right so after you have money and you have aetherium on coinbase they tell you oh you can download this wallet and they give you an easy ux bridge right like click here to you know make this migration migrate your money to a place where you're managing the keys now I have problems with like the privacy aspect of this because now they know who you are on chain and they can watch everything you do with your ethereal but you know from the progressive decentralisation stuff I think that that's like an example of that in action well that makes sense and I also really like that example with the messaging that the crypto kitties guys did in meta masks I think I had that once where with a meta masked pop-up where I was teaching at a university about just like basic stuff and getting the students to fulfill a bounty after we had created a wallet and the pop-up came up keeping in mind that I'm in the UK and the pop-up came up saying hi there you're special nonce is and then like all of the different characters and then it was sign one of the main things is that nonce in the UK is also a word for pedophile so I was introducing this new thing making them sign this message and everybody just went wait why that I had to give but again it's something they kind of look at it and go okay what is happening maybe I will not sign this because who knows what will happen so yeah definitely useful you presentation that actually gave its mana for people for Dragon Quest hackathon also the ten you explore asti's and other tips and tricks so you can check it out there nice I have also updated the privacy for the document so you can only access it by that way my problems perfect Thank You Sasha I think one thing in these dresses that I've seen there than I learned just like yes so I think one thing we've learned is like is that like users or whomever you're designing for when they're in whatever death is like this notion of reassurance because I think there's these specific moments right like when you do a transaction or when you're going to sign a transaction or when you're going to like do something we're actually like there's an event that actually happens and it's actually quite terrifying but for novice users and for experienced users whereas there are some things that you can do that are just purely informational or actions that you can take that are actually not doing things unchain that produce anxiety within users but they actually shouldn't so I think like really showing that contrast or providing like like documentation or some acknowledgement that like hey this is what this action that you're doing actually has consequences whereas these actions are you doing don't have consequences so you can play over here but be very careful over this yeah I think that's really important and that's a that's a big one isn't it because we're so used to from the centralized world to just nothing really has that much of a consequence right you can recover things you can do these things again you forgot your password you can change it ten thousand times and I think there was a conversation on Twitter the other day where there was a fake Elon Musk account that was asking people for if and then somebody sent him this fake one I don't know how much theif and then he was tweeting coinbase you must undo this because it's a fake Elon and it's like well no doesn't work that way so yeah I think that's definitely important I mean if we don't have any other questions and I think this has been a great experimental session I would say I think it's been a lot of super super important and super great content and I think we've answered a few questions we'll send everyone the decks if you haven't picked them up from from the tract and then Heather also send you a couple of email addresses that people have sent me in the chat privately about it thank you so much everyone and should we do this again yes but thank you so much recording as well I don't know we'll put it on the eath global youtube maybe yeah let's just do that I think that's the easiest thing pushing perfect and then we'll share it on Twitter as well perfect and thank you so much Sasha Jonny Jordan Amy and obviously Heather and Emily and Trent firm the eath global team and good luck everyone when everything thank you so much thank you everybody presenting and sharing that's awesome thank you yeah see you later