The Next Step for Crypto: Instant and Free Payments | European Blockchain Convention 9

[Music] 2 1 premium.com [Music] okay so Simone are you here Sim Simone no oh there you are okay just in time almost okay so we are going to talk about the next step for crypto instant and free free payments so I think in the meantime I'm I'm taking over for Denise I'm Victoria Gago from European pling convention have a seat so I think quickly 30 seconds each of you Simone do you want to start who are you and why here 30 seconds each welcome about yourself yeah hi to everybody my name is Simone I'm COO of kodo group um I represent our company we are a Emi company fintech we build the white lbel solutions for financial institutions and Banks we do offer different kind of service crypto related and not as the card dising bus service and Q artificial intelligence services so it's the fourth participation in this event we are uh pretty uh friends with Victoria since uh or now I think this is the third year and very glad to be here and share with you our experience thank you very much thank you Simon Joey hello hello thank you good morning um so let me first start um the company is called unlimit not unlimited um and it's pronounced joy as in John Bon Joy not hovie a lot of people make that mistake um I'm the MD of unlimit banking as a service solution I'm part of the unlimit group we are a global fintech and we help companies to make and receive payments um and we do that through a number of verticals you know that is through acquiring which is our Core Business um through the issuance of corporate accounts um through card issuing and through my baby which is banking as a service so we essentially help um any business any companies um any clients essentially utilize our Innovative Suite of API um to utilize our principal membership of the card scheme so MasterCard Visa up um our e-money license in Europe and in the UK we wrap that all around as a white label and offer it to clients to essentially open accounts and to issue cards for their customers very happy to be here and thank you so much thank you gido I'm not sure if I'm pronouncing your name correctly but Guido or it's I mean in Europe we have so many different languages it's diff difficult exactly no it depends fans okay good morning everyone thank you very much for having me here I'm representing today T crypto T crypto is the biggest regulated Exchange in Europe with 1.2 million registered users and also has a feature which is s crypto pay which consists of three services one is ramp services for uh Euro and poly slotty the second one is payment Gateway for online services and it also has a point of sales Solutions uh for um for commercial providers and uh maybe I'm Formerly Known very much as the seba bank founder and uh and uh established that bank uh 2018 fantastic so I mean I think we all know that payments was basically the first use case right if we look at the Bitcoin white paper so uh where are we now I mean how many years after Are We Now is it to 13 14 I don't even know what's the status right now when it comes to payments H in crypto well let's consider of course now we enter in an era where the crypto Market is jumping in beer and bull season but what is the main demand of the market we know is to create the solution uh to be able to convert crypto Fiat and give the possibility to the customers to the users to spend in real life that is where uh our business our companies enter into the market in the into the field and from our point we are trying to develop as much solution as possible and as much easiest as possible um from our end uh we can say that our company for example talking about codo is developing Innovation uh constantly on quar basis in terms of um cards uh possibility for the market to generate of course in terms of um either IPI way or through full car banking solution the chance uh to permit of course to all the user to be as much uh freely in moment they can spend in crypto directly via VIA Fiat okay um before we delve into the discussion I'd like just indulge me for a second to conduct and get a pulse of the crowd and toh conduct a straw poll very quickly so hands up here who believes that to open an account um to make a payment to use a debit card credit card prepaid card card you have to give your personal information your financial information to a centralized regulated entity hands up who believes that exactly so it seems that a lot of us here um our understanding is rooted in traditional Finance you know which is a good thing um but crypto challenges this notion and presents us with a dilemma and essentially it is how do we move forward I guess with instant and free crypto payments um with a framework that is anchored in regulation now a lot of people a lot of my friends a lot of my circle you know when I tell them that I work in fintech and banking as a service and they go what is that what does that mean and I say okay think about you know like of of monzo revolute a lot of them still don't understand you know what that means and then when we bring crypto into play a lot of them have no idea you know what I'm talking about or they think is this fancy you know um um technical mumbo jumbo that they have no idea about so a lot more people still has really no clue about crypto um and and and what I believe is web 3 so until you know we have mainstream adoption and again again let's let's be very clear about this everyone here hasn't understanding of crypto and payments but there are a lot more people who do not have an understanding so it's not as I would say Main stream so therefore we still need I guess to have mass adoption so with respect to the state of payments you know I think you know that's that's where we are yeah I would like to build up on your uh arguments I I strongly believe that the next blockchain move is going to be an instant payment and it's crossborder payments if you look at the total Market it's uh about below 200 trillion US dollar so sign differently it is also believed that it's going to increase over the next couple of years up to 250 trillion so if you compare that to the size of the biggest asset class which is real estate is phenomenal um we also have a promise right of blockchain the the decentralization uh access for everyone for financial services but as you pointed out if one wants to have uh crossb payments you actually still have to go through the rails of the Swift Network basically and blockchain has the opportunity to put the cofin on the nail of Swift by using this applying this technology also in the context of of stable coin and the challenge is to create this network in a cost efficient way uh and be also regulatory compliant for crossborder payments and I think this is what we're going to discuss today fantastic thank you okay so if we look a little bit into um well the topic we we're trying to get into a stage where we will have instant and free payments but if we have to look also like the security and and scalability questions I mean how how can we get instant free payments and still have a proper security and also um also make sure that like the technology is scalable well from our point of view of course in terms of uh security is very delicate yeah in terms of security sure is very delicate topic and uh today sure in terms of kwayb and qyc Regulators uh we do need to make much more step forward um from our point of view sure as much we can through the technology to um either verify or they Implement in terms of liveness biometric system in order to uh prevent of course now there is a situation with the artificial intelligence the world is moving in a different direction and uh now we have to see also Europe what will decide with the AI act in terms of the security measures for uh for this purpose but um we believe uh of course uh is the the duty of all our businesses our company to be able uh to manage this uh to be able to manage this uh this field hello hello H hello there sorry to interrupt that was totally fascinating I'm kind of breaking the flow a bit because we have now uh the opportunity to welcome properly our wonderful moderator a big thanks to Victoria Gago for standing in there that was absolutely brilliant wonderful of great speakers and a big round of applause for our wonderful moderator Denise dooso the Spanish team lead at being crypto thank you hello hello thank you for the introduction sorry to be late oh um I am really exciting to be here in this European blockchain convention it's an absolute pleasure for me to be here thank you Victoria for inviting me I am the team lead of En crypto we cover 14 language we are a media crypto outlet and I am the Spanish team team lead the Spanish is the largest um Community with more than two Millions two millions active h members well we're going to continue thank you so much uh with this wonderful panel so following up Victoria's um questions I would like to know about the the regul regulatory firworks for cryptocurrency very widely so I would like to know uh in each of your cases how do you see the regul regulatory statement currently uh how we'll be helping into the introduction of of of H payment in crypto yes we start please no worries and den sorry yes um before I answer very quickly um Guido you made a comment earlier you said that um the blockchain will essentially be the final nail in the coffin for Swift could you elaborate just a little bit on that please yeah sure so basically people ask me what's the difference between digital money today and uh stable coins right and uh the the qu the answer is a blockchain item a token is a digital autonomous object if basically can float like physical cash from one one one wallet to another the digital money today has to go through predefined rails right so if you see in the context of geopolitical measures the first thing that is being done is basically to disconnect the players from Swift and therefore there is no rail anymore for the digital money and that's what I believe is the significant potential for us as a blockchain industry and Community to enable this crossborder payment so if you have a solution that allows us to go peer-to-peer but still comply with the regulatory requirement which is a challenge that we need to discuss and there are potential opportunities we can overcome Swift right and Swift is a measure of control it's but it's also an additional cost so if you look at for instance I just looked at the statistics uh from a crossboard payments perspective in the less established countries you know there are people they maybe make per day5 to $10 I'm not talking to the ultra poor but you know let's say reasonable income and they want to um crossborder pay it back to their family it's up to 8% that they have to pay for these uh commissions because it has to go through these rails and that's what I believe is the next big promise for us as a blockchain community to enable this instant crossborder payments through blockchain technology which will be the field of further Innovation and if you allow me you know now Bitcoin is up right and people think about uh crypto winter is gone but I believe you know the white paper syndrome the next layer one layer two that's basically past right what what we have to do is now create use cases that link the digital world with real economy pain points and payments is the first one and is addressing the biggest population in the world and it includes the unbanked and this is going to be the power for the next Evolution yeah but from my point of view also we have to consider that many countries which are considered as emerging countries sure they will have the difficulties in terms of verification process to be able of course to be to use the service itself in terms of regulatory in terms of system in terms of technologies that they can achieve on this point so of course we we know everybody a market like the African Market is very emerging especially Nigeria which in the perspective of 2050 going to be the sixth biggest country in the world in terms of economy of from this point we are still a little bit back I mean the system is still not supporting them and uh sure when an end user from Nigeria will have to be verified in terms of prove of address or in terms of guarantees that it can give that where we we stuck I mean this still we are not I mean the syst is still not able to provide for them this solution for example I believe all of us we have this kind of cases uh from the third considered War countries sure they have the willing to but today they are still uh looking for or to find some solution or to find someone which can provide solution for them but there a big needs and there big demand the point is how the market can solve it I'd add again very quickly that governments globally um Regulators central banks they are going to regulate within an inch of its life no crypto blockchain decentralization um and it's a challenge to find the balance between Innovation and regulation between you know decentralization and security and ultimately between freedom and accountability and it's very hard to to to navigate you know those those those challenges I mean you talk about regulation I you know um my I'm from Nigeria and just to send money to my mother in Nigeria is a challenge from a feat perspective you know every month you know I try to send payments from my HSBC account you know via flutter wave to Nigeria the same amount the same time of the same the same amount the same time of month and every time it gets blocked every time and I have to it gets flagged for fraud and this is from a fat perspective so can you imagine how difficult it's going to be if I was to use you know Bitcoin to this in Nigeria you can't even send you know Bitcoin so it becomes incredibly difficult um and when Regulators get involved um and again they're going to regulate this to within an inch of its life it becomes increasingly difficult um for for crypto to be instant to be free ultimately and and especially let me add for what you say Joy correctly uh even if in Nigeria you might have Bitcoin how they can spend in the Bitcoin they don't have the facilities to to spend the Bitcoin in real life because which tools they can use of course they will try through a car system but who can isue the cards on this kind of country according which kind of guarantees so this is of course is a big channel that we will have to to face it sooner or later with a with a very strong action from our point of view yeah I agree I mean if it would have been easy you know we would already see a category leader in that space and uh we have to work with The Regulators right you can't go against The Regulators so crossborder payments for crypto is feasible but it's not legal if you go to cross border the banking system sucks right when it comes to payments I mean just your example just want to basically transfer money it takes too long crossborder payments takes in average four days if you do the payments on blockchain you know you can say the block until it's confirmed it takes up to 30 minutes but it's still a significant Improvement so what we have to think is how are we dealing with that and I think the first one obviously you have to have rampon services and then you need to have stable coins that are trustful I mean US dollar T is is leading but there are certain questions you know I'm not going into this but there should be you know there are banks out there that could actually issue trustful uh stable coins the next one is the travel rule So Yesterday our CEO presented the the the Mika um um regulation that comes into play one topic is the travel rules right so if I send a Buy sneakers in Mexico out of Nigeria right uh the ultimate beneficial needs to be stated and all the information has to flow so there are solutions in play they try to use the blood uh certain um I think it's the ethereum uh free fields to basically fill out this information but this is a very very painful data intensive activity but what about if you attach digital identity to a wallet but we don't use a digital identity that's controlled centralized but we control uh we use a a self Sovereign digital identity and connect these wallets and you can control what kind of information you are giving away and if you look for instance if you think about in China now I'm not sure it's Shanghai or Bing if you if you come into the uh into the country and you can um register on a wallet and you go into a train station they identify Yourself by your face and it's already being booked uh I two weeks ago I went to the US in Texas when you go into the migration you just show your face and then everything is identified so let's think about these model opportunities I don't know what the the answer is but I think we all agree when we can connect these three elements this is going to be the beginning of proper adoption of the internet of value which you know call it blockchain or web free exactly connecting also this point for example I don't know if you heard from 2024 Singapore change um change airport already they plan to have uh all the the transit of the passenger through phe recog Mission the point yes also from our end one target of our company is yesterday was presented from our coo is uh the face payment system sure nowadays the problem of course for the artificial intelligence act European Community is valuating if this is going to be a good solution because we saw already in China in uh in UK I believe as well you do have a from the cameras installed on the road on the road on Street the people they can already recognize what are you doing so it's matter also of limitation of the privacy of the individuals and this is another important fact that keeps in uh which way we need to move to facilitate from one side the payment process or from the other side to limitate the privacy of the individuals I agree I mean tyone has the first min of data secrecy right and she basically uh made the point the transparency is it good for the government or is it good for the citizen and you know the jewry is out this is the tradeoff of digitalized Services uh and as a society I hope we can steer uh the direction in a democratic way and process but Al also as a as an industry right there is Monero C cash you know the anonymized money so maybe there is an opportunity to establish these currencies up to a certain limit I don't know but we we have to work with the regulators and educate them and The Regulators that are not bad citizens in that way you know that their their objective is to make sure that investors are protected we've limit that have limited knowledge and that fraudulent players are being detected and sometimes overshoot and you know we have every year we had a A Bad Case a bad narrative for those people that are critical to our industry so let's work with the regulators and step by step with baby steps come to the right conclusion and that's my statement if we if you are in a position to put the nail on the coffin of Swift then we have uh achieved uh the web free enablement yeah definitely thank you so much uh for your input it's been um it's it's a long journey but I think that crypto Doon is here to stay and definitely crypto payments is like a proc something that will come and of course we need the education is a key uh not only for Regulators but as well for users um so thank you so much it's me I don't know if you would like to add some something uh sure I'll add something um every time I come to these events I always leave thinking have I learned anything new um has anything fresh and Innovative been said um by the speakers or by the panelist and you know the topic is the next step for crypto instant and free payments and you know ultimately what we've said here today there nothing new you know it's not new information it's it's nothing you know Innovative um so I guess what I'd like to say is is that fundamentally in order for crypto to become more mainstream and to be widely adopted um from a bass perspective of banking as a service perspective you know I am here to look for Innovative application layer companies who are looking to launch something Innovative fresh and new into the market uh we will work with you you know because I think you know crypto web through blockchain is the next step you know in in for the future uh and I am here you know as MD of bass to provide you with assistance because you guys are the ones that are going to develop something Innovative to make crypto instant and free and to make you know mainstream and mass adoption thank awesome