ETHWaterloo Presents: Cryptoeconomics, Internet Money and Decentralized Finance

all right we'll welcome and thank you for coming out as I was thinking about what I would stated to introduce the event I thought from George Bernard Shaw and he said a lot of people see things the way they are and they say what but I dream of things as they ought to be and say why not why not so that's actually not the essence of the spirit not just you Waterloo in Heath global the hackathons and people dreaming up new ideas things like that it's also what makes Waterloo Waterloo it's it's a binding that president the university dr. David Johnson who was the Governor General of Canada often times we open up his speeches with that Bernard Shaw so I thought to myself yesterday we had opening ceremonies for Waterloo the principal message that the important Kartik tile works at a stage was dream big dream big today we have a number of people who not only quite big but who actually realized the team's if you're gonna hear from that were really proud to present that and so we write in the park two and a half years ago Park ticket the other day approached and said hey we wanna we want to throw the world's largest etherium hackathon Waterloo would you would you people to help and I you know after I got over how lucky I was in the asked I immediately jumped at the opportunity and so I want to take a moment to describe what net what's transpired then because they've assembled the team that's been absolutely remarkable and those individuals deserve a lot of credit for what's going on here today across the hall over here as well as what's happened since in the two years that's transpired they've taken this prototype of this area Menaka gone and they've gone global because all these communities around the world said hey we want our own and so 14 events later from San Francisco to New York Denver when Osiris Argentina Bangalore India Singapore Berlin Paris the list goes on and on it's been absolutely remarkable seeing them take their vision and inspire their communities around the world to to basically hack the top of the etherium and so to quantify 14 events there was over 10,000 developer applicants from all over the world that have applied for eath global events from 75 different countries and so that team that made that happen include the following individuals Karthik tell our via warn Josh started Heather Campbell and fruit enscombe and Jacob people's so if you could join me [Applause] for those of you who are from out of town you might be thinking what the [ __ ] is this building well this used to be an old whiskey distillery but down it's the home of Shopify Waterloo and Shopify has unbelievable partner and helping us put this event together and I wanted to think that specifically I wanted to thank Paul you know Toby the chocolate I said this could quite decently need the nicest office a small attack but then of course he said the King Improvement Center was probably the in any case yes and then he you know two years ago when we also were looking for other partners help us bring this event to other parties that I wanted to recognize the sitting in the back of the room is Spanish and shortcodes Galvan's who spent runs of watching noctus accountants and they jumped at the opportunity to back us early an idea so I wanted to thank you for back then [Applause] so we insisted on me mentioning that this is intended to be a conversation this is not necessarily supposed to be lectures now so if there's something that's not clear or if you want to get to rob us of a question that's highly encouraged this is this is meant to be a forum to share ideas as I mentioned and so please by all means raising it if you want to discuss something or you know ask the question of what's been mentioned because we're going to be talking about three central topics today it's going to be crypto economics followed by panel or decentralized finance t5 followed by you know effectively render three or Internet money so that's that's coming up as well and with that said I wanted to also just recognize special friend use of their group dr. John position used to be the executive director of the center for international covenants in Asia in this building with warship flight took it and dr. John English and CG in fact has been a huge partner so right now as I see today there's hundreds of hackers and explore working on projects that would be presented tomorrow to the judges many of them are in the room here with us and so CG has also deserves a lot of recognition and in for any of us watching the room the sponsor party Thank You parties this evening just down the street at the Communitech data hub and that's from 7:00 to 9:00 p.m.

so we look forward to seeing all of you there but without further ado I would like to turn it over to the inventor creator and founder of freedom the one I don't leave the tablet Victoria thank you for coming back to time [Applause] [Music] so they're visiting generous problem the original set up to any messengers a lot of people's problem was but the reality is right so distributed to the senses the ability to talk to each other so what did Satoshi really what did Satoshi with these systems [Music] if so it would [Music] the [Music] so speeding in Eclipse and participated at anyone participating now this is a lot production it's kind of like a voting reducing these blocks if an attacker is able to produce more parts than the rest of them together then whatever protections they can be so simple attack admissible yes let's say we have a revision [Music] so the science and you having this extremely large binding Clark's everywhere constantly Givens the reason why we have if someone else joins the network they try to start we would have to have more difficulty also works so so this is so these two things together so how does Anderson crypto means that you're [Music] so [Music] today is the ask well what development actors large extra pollen so what about attackers who are not just reading off the court about attackers that just have some other rule out that meets that wants the muses so for example some products one of the core developers are somewhere in there some other potentially is sometimes if we focus on [Music] so here's what we're finding this right so first of all [Music] kind of how situation in order to state what costs bikers started but at some point eventually so [Music] how much [Music] for example that it's useful for watching to cuss watch his hardness and movement perishables environments where the protocol itself you can also be useful so reverse this other people have come up with and this is basically saying that like to be ordered super that's a bit this could be email spam this video just spam denial of service attacks against website says philosophy thanks then we did try to live in these kinds of attacks why being secretly rolling having a system where you would deposit and putting kind of deposit messages and this is something you can use obligations it's [Music] so there's we search protocols just [Music] suppose [Music] says well we are each of those pieces must do but at first not great so at first instead what we're going to do is we're just gonna wait for someone to sew suppose is [Music] ten times now if we have this fiendish race this treats us born right who's here just exit to the power 10 pretty strong consensus so there's a if the computation is wrong there has to be some computations so there exists the challenge period right the watching this monetization it accepts a submission it's during the challenge period anyone else the watch so multiply it by two so this is unions so softer burbs yes sir Oracle's [Music] or how do we there are some [Music] one of the problems so gross which is too possibly the basically says and which that helps people scream once I'm good for another token at the same time so this is so cryptic since War two I'm watching the sign in sports who how important state work and it's per to be susceptible because it's allowing us to read the systems that have sweets we're [Applause] I think Microsoft actually did exactly this amigo so these tools are example of this so this is and there's a and the reason why he wants to do this is because if you do this the high-frequency trading i'ma scoffs becoming becoming a profitable there's two that's great so basically it's definitely the case that there's different kinds of markets there definitely are no bees no possibility of greeting markets [Music] the in general I think it's like this piece is a police that makes it easier art [Music] in terms of scalability right now it's untenable instead approach for you chart the history or there's an improvement reproducibility like different people promise to have different parts of the history [Music] first of all there have been [Applause] why are you could talk to the stage as well as Joey group or solo Cortez [Applause] just work with housekeeping if anybody's interested in water throughout the second floor it was the spirit of that firstly I brought having this metallic fantastic can we put up around round of applause again I think is a creator of all this I said introduction Joey crew co-founder of a walker which is actually the first one of the first to be RC 20 tokens on aetherium we've got Warren from zero X which is the pretty much pioneering like moving the needle on decent ice exchanges train and bus from [Music] is so holy cash out and now the founder at sorry what's so the cool thing might have been a French tweak to the net guys great texture thanks for bein Ian I wanted to start off with you what problems are you saying that are appealing what's the advice audience appealing to you let's make it appealing to you what do you think the biggest problem you guys would success look like Eagles yeah so how is your ex we have a mission into seeing that you end up tokenized public clock genes so this range from assets like fiat currencies gaming under those prediction or is and so we believe it if this value is out tokenize about public auctions it'll democratize financial services in the same way [Music] so would it show pants whose use decentralize finance de fire and typically constructed lending now when products to market like whether its revolute or transferwise it's too difficult for them to do it all on their own so what they do they go to a bank is going to white label all the services you know I feel like collaboration and trying to focus of being expert learner how important is collaboration or is it proper t-shirt situation we have this thing's have please it's so good the marketplace ride going let's say possible foods going to boutique schools and magical the be supply inventory creative inventory we have a Sea Turkey violation those products onto something like zero X in the future definitely yes and that one of the things I think is really interesting about is you know predictions future insurance being able to create specific outcomes or at least for possible you know guys typically speaking how important is predictability to controlling risk in in the market and if risk is going to hinder option take of these products you think that that's gonna be necessary yes so it's just more contractor using actually secure and that's actually really hard price that's like the obviously was like well let's make this a really work because you're basically just creating a person solution grows exponentially I mean unity challenging behavior changing in history which is fine it's got the deepest pockets it's not gonna roll or without any kind of fire I feel like to me the tiny Missouri timing is the difference between executing income executing do you guys think the window for this opportunity to dethrone traditional finance and moving into other planets it's good question I mean I think the biggest factor in the timing by an adoption of defy this religious is the technology there and it is I feel like I feel like it is at least you know the theory of 1.0 realize the potential of open financing it's amazing the potential is insane you know we still will probably be that Katy bit of orange just the scallop block James and to allow the finance to serve millions of people but it feels like now is the time because the technologies is it's going to happen so the standard tools whatever is working this now makes it these things whatever some other it is future reason why it's financial somebody what was working you have to make sure that and this one between you know standardizing things through collaboration and stuff and then also balance analysis categories and I know we're not risk and so how you pretty look at making down heads up heads up the audience anyone make it out nice so make it ours for those on the street Milly with important make it now as responsible for creating Dai Dai which is this stable court it's a decentralized able point that is backed by currently quiet etherium and that means if you put your two theorem down you can draw down against that with a smart contract ensuring that you will make make all analyzed so make it down as instructor with many different pods and finance or waste markets you know it's always going to be two-sided lending borrowing you know is this year from single collateral buy into multi-level life does that keep anyone up it might actually be quite dangerous it's like I've seen people on Twitter or Baker talking about having seriously about concept like well you picked use of mortgage I guess your home as bottle and spectacles forgotten past decade remember 2008 there are problems with it was doing those sorts of things and it's kind of a classical table like 30 attachments you know prior to 2000 2006 2007 there these partially and farmland attachments and they had monthly and quarterly subscriptions introductions and after about me the prices have collapsed and these hedge funds didn't end up paying back their investors until like six seven eight nine years later and so there's this concept of like clear he's not [Music] like two steps back on steps over to the thing just won't talk about that get the most value out of the D and do we target in today I mean I think the people get the value of D Phi or the end users of financial products that just you know basically getting taken advantage of I like Bullock ah please as fees that nickel-and-dime them and so I mean it's like asking like who benefits from the internet democratizing access to information it's like and anyone that believes information and knowledge should be free benefits from it if you want to prevent people from being knowledgeable and educated enough for them then it's not good for you and I think if we use that same analogy it's like I know who you know defy is bad for and I don't really care that it's bad for them you know it's like these ol acaba leads that you know have like an entrenched interest in keeping things the way they are heavy weights yeah what about accessing the people that have any financial products do we get there we get there in time so the other side of the world people that you know Argentina Egypt where we are election rights it used to sort of zero percent interest rate on their money that's actually gonna be a bonus because they're gonna lose or 10 or 15 percent over the course of the year through through their local currency how do we get to them to really have tangible value as fast as possible do we get there in time specifically like these countries I think you know we've got the resources here to build really powerful products how do we get sort of the infrastructure in the hands of as being gonna capture this guy they don't have Robin Hood cash out revolutions to choose from how do we get you know today like we're probably going to see traction in blockchains for basically like towing use cases like Chris Dixon talks about you know like the most impactful products and technologies usually start out looking like toys and imagine that's you know kind of what is gonna happen with blockchain technology d5 is that we're going to serve these use cases that you know are kind of appealing to people that are educated and for understand the promise of the technology and that is going to allow us to continue scaling the technology and improving it and eventually you reach mass adoption it but we're not going to be able to get there immediately and I think that would be really challenge unless your leg up vibra if you're Facebook and you have like billions of users you can skip the toy face directly the mass adoption but there are like obviously some serious trade-offs around that as well yeah is that if you look at the cash all this other perhaps the parent rubbing many others the pair started to provide access to thoughts and investments that weren't available to the masses to everybody and there's a lot of a lot of traction what chemical groups of currency all new technology is coming is that anybody in the words don't need to have access to it I don't know what's needed to get there you're pathetic and I feel like the cash app has a very hard time to do any on the United States we've been trying to bring it to Canada seaside was it's like we worked on that to you in Kitchener and it's very hard and I actually use it they like they reason for that dispense traditional makes and how hard they make it for financial solutions to to whatever they need to do because they saw centralized is that the regulator is breathing down the banks neck or is that the banks breathing down the regulators I mean if you think first of all everything is you go to a different country we're going to have to negotiate the contracts with each institution there and then implement all over the cause becomes a massive nightmare to go anywhere else but for on public square in general it's very hard to experiment for those reasons now if anybody could do something good application like the cash on top of a decentralized but working from this year it's available to everybody so it's time this needs to come first right away was it mainstream yeah it's actually interesting so recently a shop that brought in sort of spokes into the app and our boys one of the one of the really most exciting things when I look at 0x is the idea sort of you know provide a trademark it will like a very open market way everyone can kind of build a Robin Hood out of the box almost with you know people supplying these targets and zero you know the conversation between traders how do you think about that both yeah I mean that would be amazing so it it might not be like you know serving like global population but I still think like the fact that you know people in many parts of the world can't access like publicly traded Canadian companies are like US companies and like oftentimes things like big companies that are like the best most attractive investments are you know it's like people that it's immigrants that are like building these companies and running them and like their family can't even like home this year it's it's ridiculous and so I think like creating tokenizing things like socks and stuff like that and opening it up to a global population it is actually like use case yeah yes public company point of view for sure I have family back from Brazil friends they can accept very very hard process now that would be really cool even for private parties like when you look at how hard it is to like how hard I can how much money we spend on lawyers how much how much work it takes basically or who trade stocks in one of the sort of digital banking apps right one single tray well simply trade right okay so and the people on the stream app as well what's really interesting to think about is I don't know how many people okay so people using well simple trade how many of you or spots in Apple yeah how many of you went to other channels so okay so one person so if you think about that what's really interesting is there's a big conversation about regulation regulatory guidance and you know how do you analyze the fact is you know hey I've got a problem with the q3 earnings report released about iPad sales in Southeast Asia people are going to get Ojo and and I think like that conversation it's really interesting to me you know what I look at 0 is do you guys think about that in fact that into execution as well so giving this sort of idea of everyone can have a scarlet oh like exposure to a stock versus you know how do we fly towards the regulation sort of yeah the alternative [Music] you know you know you know it's like one example assistance company in two companies in China what's called Tiger Woods was actually started by George sorro's little partner and these companies each everyone works without combined their work about two million three million dollars which is actually small or how large the potential market is for Chinese nationals to buy Apple stock snap shows they have like Chinese partners who are really well connected national top part of this to sell this as a wearing skills and I think pink synthetic assets are interesting what happens if you know in most of them today are buying stocks in also multiple are encoding air pollutants so you actually see that going into the like private funds like you know he Jerry Saltz of the CIO and Terry capital response the first peak point funds so really early mover in the space and also if you're good you don't need to raise capital investors and so there's kind of like this mismatch what the products that do exist aren't actually the highest quality products I think the regulations surrounding this building ten times easier it was like super easy to do for logistical standpoint didn't like take off and you see this was like larger investment things going more detail in the 90s you asked how much do you think gold watch retail out of this pan it was a heck no but here we are what's changed the most over this year you're surprising surprise [Music] hillbilly manscape exciting by the end of next year yeah I think that's yeah I think I agree actually the probably the most surprising thing over the last year has been the pace of development in like zero knowledge roofs and entire you know area of technology because cuz these concepts have existed for you know for like 30 years people have been working on this stuff and like there are people that are you know and stuff and on today which is [Music] yeah good question so regulator I think you know the question of is define that building around the system and breaking rules moving fast or it's not like so it's the question is that happen or should it should happen I think it depends on your view of the system you're bypassing so you know sometimes the systems that and you know kind of worming or they make sense when the system is formed but in you know today in you know as technology progresses the regulations laying that has been put in front of us doesn't really make sense anymore in so you can either work with regulators to convince them that I should change or you can just burn it down or you can just go right through it and like sometimes you just didn't do that honestly in my opinion but there are also you know they're also very good regulation asleep I think the ACO craze really demonstrated why like investor protections so it's definitely not an easy answer but I think regulator is acknowledge that and you know regulators to say like yeah laws are important regulations are important but we also don't want to get in the way of innovation at least us like some of regulators have that position when it comes to like whose fault is it is you know a user gets hacked or they lose their private key I mean the you know the philosophy behind cryptocurrency in general is like don't trust verify like take kind of personal responsibility like the power behind cryptocurrency if the fact that you know you can take ownership of your own assets and you don't have so I feel like it's important that we keep that philosophy the personal responsibility and like yeah self custody [Music] curious I was curious to know [Music] these aren't their charge of 20% fees some cases you can get charged before now that sounds like well as a small population but in reality those people are driving over 60 to 70 percent volumes so it's actually that's kind of the building opposite it correlates to this question over there as far as orders responsibility was any of your buildings on top of auditor you might say able take responsibility will they need Canadian back for it but I've changed that we're gonna charge a fee on top of the base profile but you can have systems like that we the certain things you can do in the centralized way this still brings me the benefits of a decentralized so to me those benefits are no limits yes question you a situation which I have a situation and what is your confidence let me see no cryptocurrency what do you think yeah that's a good question I mean it could be it could be a bad thing for the cryptocurrency space in general people that might be interested in the technology because they know is their only alternative to government currency and then they they get you know they really realized the benefits of decentralization on government you know maybe we don't get as many of those people coming into the space because they're satisfied with a government-issued digital currency but yeah I mean it government-issued digital currencies could be like a pretty scary pretty scary in my opinion it allows you know governments to have like a complete kind of you into everything and everyone is doing with their money and having like financial privacy I think it's something that everyone appreciates whether you're you know like you don't have to be doing bad things to like want to keep your spending habits and so I think it's like kind of scary trend they're just kidding as well I think it's really scary as well but I actually think that this is the biggest lay out we could get as a system if you think about the difficulty of convincing educating and you know onboarding someone who knows and they got paper notes in their wallet versus someone that's a cash app and trying to get them to move from cash out in to take make it out the friction point I'd say it's a globally crowd-sourced onboarding procedure so thanks for the billion users if we're gonna like that government-issued digital currency if if the government can have transparency into it you know the citizens spending habits and finances like hopefully citizens will have much much more transparency to government spending habits so maybe that could be Joey [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] first time two years ago for the first one and actually the important from the floors of every check beam is pleased to be I know yes I speak here with you guys that you're spending two years working on a video game which will show you so my team and i we're 22 of us now we're very excited about exploring video game experiences and incentives in the website era so i'm here to tell you about my perspective what web 3 means from a product perspective so first you know focusing on kind of web 1.0 really which is a kind of get the interactivity of information so kind of looks like this back in the day if you guys remember starting with an s8 downloading is just incredible like tapping into this endless sea of information now hyperlinks kind of start where it comes from like started from HP the transport protocol you know in greece works a unifier of locator to connect in HTML the document standard all of the standards really protocols and the browser which really you know represents this world wide web that kind of the vision of open and connect to information to allow anything to accent to publish into this network is something really that started us to be here and definitions my life and have spent a hundred thousand yeah and so when we think about web 2.0 you know it's it's about the connectivity of applications networks and people and that's where we are today and so what kind of occurred obviously browsers became incredibly powerful javascript in the browser essentially converged the ability of abilities of what a desktop could do to the extent that you know companies like Firefox in group or Mozilla and you know via Firefox Chrome Google the browser's are like operating systems and in fact even today when we talk about like web assembly as a kind of essentially a universal machine level language it's people are even putting web assembly in the Linux kernel which is just wild and o´clock chains of course soon and this essentially deepen the experience that allow anyone to instantly access applications and software for anywhere from anybody's or for you without you know in a sandbox in a kind of a secure environment and interestingly this right here is autopilot which is actually a web application in a browser this is actually chrome mister beers Elizabeth and so of course there's also an emergency fund of networks of social networks the connectivity market became online obviously like e-commerce was kind of fulfilled by usability and the collaboration across ecosystems like clouds and if you guys this is this is where to find out the connect so we kind of came to the point of the connectivity of information and the kind of emergence of applications in the wide global connectivity of the dividuals and people as brutes and now you know what I think about what about 3.0 is really the internet of value and so it's kind of looking back what - turning these applications and networks into economies and this is again my view and that I'm extremely excited about and so what degree what makes it possible is to create and participate in open and secure digital economies so for example the simplest thing would be as a user of an application you can actually generate value just by being a user evaluated and just like we do on mining just like how big underneath your have started just how quickly can my mistake about helping secure the network you also really get to earn the near token of that network and in this case by leverage by offering like for to power I can earn a theory which is pretty sweet and so another great example of kind of offering you know in a lot of ways it's kind of like value share right you produce value and so the brave browser which offers it you know made by the expert Iligan CEO you know they have there such as a privacy derivative browser where you have access to control us to have advertisers or people actually view your fingerprints on and you can opt in to choose to do that and in advertisers the publishers can target you but you'll actually earn back token as a result of that you technically can take that about token converted for various different pairs of parties such as the earring or time it's tough maybe he'll sell it back to advertisers who want to be targeting other users which is pretty cool so surfing the web you're earning value so I'm working on a game called sky Raider but we can do it for two years really excited looks like this it's actually a wedding WebGL game filter on engine it's a so it's a 1vs1 multiplayer turn-based strategy game similar to 90 be gathering pokemon ukyo hearthstone and so forth it's available on 74 platforms Windows Mac Linux ISO image right but and it's you know it's so the idea of our game has no targeting the etherion ecosystem is that we have 400 different types of collectable cards these cards are yours 1155 tokens but forget the number not really that important or to the extent is that their type of cryptocurrency token that exists in your wallet so you're able to all done and you're able to trade them with one another it's really cool and it's funny in the digital card game space what is it you know two billion dollar market they're actually not you know you might hear the terms of TCG or CCG they're all CCGs because they're just collectible card games in the digital space there's really no one not even magic pagana to make that are less you trade with your friends it's really interesting and funny and because it has great implications to the economics but there's also a really cool incentive by having the opportunity to own these items but also being able to take game to final you know the idea of generating value in art value so as a user as a leveling up in your and you know clogging the ranks the production of our assets and our economy such as which is our card you know our is the actual game card itself on a weekly basis this is probably in terrassa so the top players that are simple we move it to a bunch of silver cards at random and we distribute it to people's wallets and that's the other way that get produced on you win the card you put it in your wallet and this is real honoring to be we have hit number of users and it's only growing and getting people love the game actually the guy who worked up the game is guys you could work on magic together you could play it everywhere obviously so there's a fully integrated wallet you can see on the ether we have Arcadia point it's essentially a stable point of profit on it and it's not actually capability but you can see that reward from the leaderboard here I have I can actually go to my wallet I decide to send it to my friend if I want to like a descending there it goes or I can actually go to the marketplace and I can you know the cards that I want through the leaderboard in a free video game I can there you know sell it on the open market for you know whatever the markets accepting at the time I mean everything seamless experience and that's kind of the point as to what I think we're all kind of obviously heading in terms of all of a sudden he's angry search for protocol design critical productize that kind of an int and experience to be able to deliver what I think oh you know Kylie sure and so and you know climbing is gone you can open economies so yeah we were free play later go to Scott without net and give it a go if you like it's on the brink of you network and I think that's generally my my presentation but the message I would leave everyone is just did idea of creating value have the abilities and the perspective that I think is very novel of what Easter allow and it's really just the beginning for wife three there's there's so many vectors and use cases for it in this open commerce on for and you know really exploring the space so really excited and thank you very much so next up out I can I call Peter dan jumbo Sean to the stage as well as so I'm gonna turn it over to Karthik tell bar is the co-founder local as well next available so this next one presentation is a general v3 and all I'll be doing a quick panel with all of us just kind of covering some of the questions around what it means to transition into that world so so kind of like that and we already kind of heard of her here today what Verizon Ames is doing as many starting retaining well I would love to learn our that the audience to know who you are what you do in and just in general what what three means to you sure so many was Daniel it sir investor I do cool adventures which is a crypto blockchain focused early-stage VC fund from idea which is this global design firm so we tend to come at this very user centric perspective and one of the big questions around what three has been around usability I think is really been leading the way in terms of making these financial interactions online in these many companies that are being created making them feel or web too so I spent a lot of time looking around playing it I love sky we've related a bunch and you have just really excited by how quickly this space is evolving look and see four thematic basically we solve the usability problems in web 370 management products so you can log into a website at normal with email or phone in a noncustodial key management architecture and yeah basically alternative to meta menace so users don't have to worry before that I was probably that docker gritty Tucker desktop which is used by any of the other person every month and Samsonite with brave software plug-in thank you so much of course brave is a practice oriented browser we focus not on just preserving the user privacy of your sovereignty but also the sustainability of the web we've seen since 2016 for 600 million automatic tractors across the lip this is spectacular for making these safer or privately as those tractors tend to leak your information liberally to various third parties without your consent but there's also a sustainability issue there because when you're talking all these ads you're not just hurting a big company journey the small people as I mentioned people who are running tutorials on salinity the people who are building awesome new gains if they were to run advertisements in those games and so what brake is done is the best you set out to create utility tote and that would allow you to transfer back to those individuals wallets and it's been working considerably well for us for a few years now so looking forward to where this industry goes forward and what we talked about today thanks so a lot I just things are just test upon what I want to kind of say is let's start a discussion on this is one topic meditator a interesting sort of consequence if going to the web three world is that now you were moving the cost of managing the data and the ownership of it to the user there's a lot of side effects of that there's a lot of the good and bad of it from your perspective like just spit be starting with do you think that's a good move or shoot users be in charge of their data and do they want that like what do you think about that from the funding of your product or maybe you look with the general sense manase and should the average users care I'm happy to give it a first pass I don't think any user cares about management in fact they don't want to manage their own data what they want is privacy and the ability to control how that data is used and so I think tools like brave are really good for that for putting the user back control but one of the big questions that everyone here is rappelled with is how do you give users control without putting them in a position where they're going to screw up right and lose their day nobody wants to lose their data even more than they don't want somebody else to excuse yeah I was not missing at the beginning but then I was I didn't think it's important that we as the the individuals building the software build the solutions that we face the scary bits of it users should not have to think about the bar chain they should not have to think about breaches and ever stop they download our apps that use our apps they used to know with an implicit trust the great thing about brave and many of them on.

i patience today is that we never have your data your neighbor they never leaves your device and we can't abuse or lose what we don't have and so I think it's geopoint the goal is to make it easy for the user so that this stuff just happens by default the users don't have concerns that they would have in years prior yeah the way I see it is and I think in order to move users through the Western world it needs to be a more pragmatic path where we provide something that is you know familiar is their experience to users the web to world so and I think by solving some of the key management challenges for example leverage with things at the SS to store user data then you can kind of achieve this kind of experience without introducing new concepts to regular users and yet essentially I think it's a progressive disclosure and as users get more context of what they want they have slowly evolved into products that fulfill their requirements so actually one thing to circle back to your original question for this I think that's a big challenge one of the amazing things about the advertising has been that it's an able to access to services to billions of people people who would not be able to pay Facebook started charging they could not pay for Google services and so there is this flattening effect from advertising that I think is really powerful there's a abled wonderful things I think the issue is that we've almost like too far and now the level of surveillance and loss of control it is a problem but I think one of the things that I really don't want us to lose as we make this work through transition is the idea that services need to find a way to be free and accessible to everyone in the world or else we call that turn it in here idealistically but we're gonna end up creating a worse version of what we have tonight now that's oh it's a very interesting topic I know maybe one one comment period as you kind of design a game that that's mostly covered on week three what kind of psychological behavior changes does that require did you think that it adds more complications or different mindset now that everybody can value this thing or does that get abstract away all they're doing is offering these these features as things like even have to worry about data loss or inventory paths the teasers post their information being stolen but nothing else changes on the outside yeah it's a great question you know that's what gaming is a cool thing to explore just because it kind of there's an existing market around virtual ideas they're fairly they can be typically low value so it's easier to connect explore the design space in terms of obviously usability and kind of data access issues be essentially indistinguishable from what is web to obviously that's why we've taken the perspective of offering a fully integrated solution in terms of data and ownership of courses it's very important to get non-custodial decentralized approach for multiple reasons I mean even as an application developer or someone who offering you know service you don't want to take on the risk of actually like losing someone's you know core assets I'm data is a big word so there's so many kinds of data and people found data differently I think so if it's your acid s which actually are related to our market that's a bit you know different in terms of gaming and why I think it's you know really cool what's the incentive there's there's there's kind of multiple reasons you know typically there's already virtual people like personal items because they utility to kill to play with them like there is actually a 32 billion dollar market of virtual items for free video games I people buy them because they want to play with them you want to show them off and they like to just the pleasure of collecting and I think what's really cool about having the kind of the blockchain there is there is a speculative kind of excitement around knowing that you this might this could be converted to something else perhaps and I could refund it like in the digital download era you know if I download something on my ps4 how to better off going to eb games at least I could like swap it for another game I think it's cool when you explore this quiet space of competitive games because you can actually distribute rewards and kind of a profit sharing kind of a model that will net expand the number of people who are participating in this and aunts extra Medicaid capabilities and I think even way colder than that is people like the cycle of people creating and then contributing the players contributing content or the developers to the players and create this characteristic where she was cycle and you know clue that answers your question to some extent but it should be distinguishable and secure and theirs and that's really hard to do for many Dan touched on that in maybe LSS games in as well but that's moving to this one three travel of this kind of explore different cuts of this models in and it's kind of pointed out a lot of this is based on subsidy that lets you enter trade-off distribution versus sort of revenue or product focused how do you think about what changes in terms business models or issues or just how people operate businesses yeah that's a great question so what we've seen in this today crypto world the world has been there two business models that work so far one is exchanges where people are buying and selling to make changes a bit of a lot of money and the other has been selling a joke issuing tickets and those are not like free generalizable models right it's wonderful that there are some big businesses build infrastructure built that way but we do need to give the honor and so I loved these experiments that are seeing leaders doing the horizon where it's we're doing this term were supposed it was like giving a way to like enter into it through participation so I think that's an interesting model and I'd love to see that get proved out a little more we're seeing a lot of variations now where people are building this financial stack so part when we watch the d5 panel before I think a lot of the projects representative did launch their own token early before they had he broadly used products may be functional but it wasn't didn't that brought a bar type thing and now we're starting to see more protocols like compound which is this money margin protocol Yunus wobblers mrs. exchange protocol that are launching they don't of hok as their business but they made you fall into it or they may build another type of business on top so I would like here's the new work three business model only I don't think we have that yet the speed of experimentation and the fact that we seem to was we had double-click was there 95 net gravity was born in the the apartment of John Tanner and Tom Shields visiting and so what I love to see is that we're sharpness understand that value is produced in some non-traditional ways we start to see by being produced by individuals who are already individuals on Twitter and what break is doing is were actually taking some of that the the family that's put into the system form advertisers these traditional employees who were able to circulate they have through to the people that have created a lot the value that haven't been the appreciated editor years and so I love that Marsh able to create a way for people that are seeing transfer value in these non-traditional departments as well as non-traditional web platforms yeah I do see that web streaming tables a lot of new ways to generate new lives better and you also see that the lights are starting to blur and between web 3xq so as we make so I come from like infrastructure background I like building tools for developers and I see a lot of great technology being created just in the space that could be useful as infrastructure in fact even the web to world so you know party that is the key mention or secret management have to be really useful for this kind of new locals first application movement which preserves privacy so I see a lot of applications in the traditional world as well so I do see that the potential direction for many companies as well so I actually want to take the hypothetical scenario where just the extreme of the opposite of what you just said now that you get the ability to innovate price every transaction anywhere from a click to an interaction do you think that kind of converges having think about internet or how information should be free or not free or does that mean we're gonna see a world where you have to pay money for accessing everything and also in general because that force more finance related things on the web like how much do you worry about that does that matter to you care of this is that even a real concern for you to be I'll start actually even of course that you wanted to information you can duplicate so that's kind of what yeah you just feel good tourism but let's see how does it change the attractions I think what ends up happening is by incentivizing more people you get deeper and ever expanding like richer content just you and that's kind of was the point that's why I talked about what I wanted to into fact what open standards do versus closed system because you guys may be remembered for the Netscape thing remember like gala online like how awesome it looked actually and it had all these amazing things but it was an open system and how could you build a business on such a closed ecosystem even like the idea of getting business together I think it offers for example in every game we use Donnelly and Arcadia coin which is actually a stable currency we use as our beings kind of think of it like advocating debuggers but that are decentralized and work across ecosystems but we don't have a commercial agreement with diamond sir or maker down you know they we know of each other but we never talked about working together I just leverage their technology so I think the permission was the ability to do business together creates you know the right incentives to allow me to build these platforms that creates exponential output the production of the more trusting things it creates new opportunities to actually make an income and finally know just you know also just think about like something like Twitter what you're going really really enjoy you know you guys may remember the stories of when they released three key is already kept changing their opinion as to the guidelines as to what you could or could not do then you know if this is web 3 ecosystem that's not really probably right because it's part of similar to everyone in the whole ethos it encourages and it kind of the building on top of it that's benefited layer beneath it as well Chris more utility essentially we should raise more about I think even if we get to the point where every packet of data is essentially you have to behave for it for some of the store deliver it that's still gonna get bundled like most people are not going to be paying per pack there will always be somebody will come provide some other air margin service on top and they'll be willing to eat that cost in order to have your business over so I don't think that's going away that's not gonna happen there's a great classic example about like mental accounting there's two micro payments and four people are familiar like micro payments generally are they referring to like some five cents or something with send payments which are possible with credit cards based on the models today and so there are technologies that are being developed and went through space that allow for sub penny payments to actually be economically viable I think that will be used for certain infrastructure but that generally won't get exposed and their consumer yeah that that would enable a lot of like new ways for infrastructure to charge and something that's more fair that this base actually music today versus something like charging for active users or yeah generally I think is important for locals to be open experience to build trust so that you know other companies and build on top of it I had to see potentially two models where money makes money as well and in one case is your daughter is hopeless Torres is very open transparent way at this project you know an open-source project and it has like incentivization aligning issues so I could potentially foresee that you know much more about the blockchain or yeah with brave there is an invisible transcript that you might be involved that the users maybe not even aware of that often times so the way the whole system works is advertising dollars go in there converted to tokens users browse the web the browser keeps her private local summary of the sites you visit and how much time you spend on each one including properties a YouTube channels Twitter account so forth and that the end of each month there's having you transferred out proportional to have sometimes people's properties to those publishers in themselves and so I think there's going to be these emerging economies of chess invisible value being transferred all the time I would I'd hate to see stuff I think which before that content just being locked away in took behind paywalls worse that where you have to manually and forcefully exert though the the friction to get access to that but so far I'm very optimistic that the open if there is necessity for value transfer is going to why would you like their mental accounting varies for micropayments i think there's actually ways that we can use human psychology to enable new models and so I love what brave does in terms of letting you set like your monthly budget that you're in contribute to the websites you visit and then it automatically splits your your payment proportionately across those sites I think that's great even when it's not mandatory when you can get people to opt-in I think of as a real interesting parallel there's a company in the energy space called Opower and their big thing is they've created these amazing bills that customers receive that utility companies work with them that basically tells you how you're doing and conserving energy relative to your neighbors relative to the low energy users in your neighborhood and it can get this absolutely competition going or social obligation going and it's incredibly effective at getting people to use less energy I think similar tactics can be applied where even if payment isn't mandatory that people want to be good citizens and we can shape the experience make a great default experience to encourage them to pay even when they strictly don't right we've seen different artists and filmmakers do these pay what you can models I think this will be something that we'll see more and more I think one of the things were realizing is that there has always been a out there that has wanted to support contra creators they wanted to pay but to have to eat your wallet out you need your credit card out to put that into someone else's system to not have any idea where or how it's being stored and then to eventually find out something in the future that it's no one wants to do that it's not very popular plus you don't want to manage multiple different platforms you have your patriarch account and all the other competitors instead of you know who the Creator supports and so it's I think we're seeing yeah people just love that they have supporting content creators they want to they just need a lower friction barrier injury that makes a lot of sense a I guess like you know with that apart from just the obvious you axe and in keep management issues you know what do you think the biggest barriers are attack people otherwise fermented people or ferment about 3d from looting billions of users like anything you fear that it could be a big hurdle other than those two things I think he's definitely the divide so there's like this thing this invisible line between X 2 and X 3 that kind of inhibits like us finding like what actually greatest these two worlds and adducing so we within a user research for our interface and we realize that you know a lot of mainstream users are familiar with Bitcoin right but in terms of ease defy right all these new concepts is very foreign to them and like if we put PTC so definitely I think we should be consolidating a digital currency as a general classic right for because you know taking out the credit card and all that is such a jarring experience I don't be great do you have a balance somewhere no sir but I think the consolidation of this cryptocurrency especially maybe to a point maybe something else would would really benefit instrument option because user already familiar with like digital currency concept because they use been long and square so yeah what the image is digital currency and it's been coming up more more recently I just straight really made the turn because the dollar is digital today largely speaking right and cryptocurrency is scary people of really negative associations a term like like it's like the Internet and native money right it's not either to any nation state it's not native to any particular company it's just internet money I think maybe bag captures the ethos that we're going for here that really divides and also from some of these potential national issue digital crypto style currencies yeah he was a market researcher said it was one of the web's original sins I mean if you have some type of currency Avenue system built in but then they face many challenges events with exporting soccer or with strong cryptography but one of the other things that I think that is a barrier to better adoption is we have this far better model I think if you're amended basically you know nice blockchain projects are so much better but they've got to trust put the thing they don't really help with is user comfort so if I lose my steno hundred to the wrong address it's just gone the kids not retrievable however if someone takes - it hard for my wallet or is managed by us remember stuff like that and they used it well they can recover those phones you should go by yourself and so they're equal in a shredder to think about those types of problems well because it's it's cognitive it's is I think the only thing separating us between realizing I'm about three and now I was just time and honestly I think we in terms of usability in your works you know it's all there we're not going to call I think whether it's miniature interactions or walnuts generically think it's more contract walls it's a big developed Italy kind of big recovery systems and acting in that way I think there's all the people we just need more of it or any events you know they bring people together to educate developers and to our development tools to actually simplify and gravy pumping bring people onto the system and educating kind of the use cases that are novel that really make sense and like all things in technology and become advocates of it's a series it's a bit of like pattern discovery and bukata applying these things you know through a common thread and then Rio and then making them easy to use and then offering those benefits of scale and what's cool about that's what's great about coping systems is you get the exponential scale because of the Tropper ability and even more so because of the lack of kind of you know risk in terms of collaboration you actually can enable mass collaboration so I think we have we just need time honestly it's not scalability it's not a thing that's getting salt by a number of individuals not even e2 you can one you know each one it's not the wallets there's like advice great smart contract conference it's I think the one world kind of land on ultimately that will like hold teams back and I think they'll be great infrastructure companies of course is secured by managing these economies and managing these assets and in regulatory issues is definitely the thing money laundering is a concern all of these sort of things but I don't think we're far away it's great to to wrap up what is one fun or interesting web 3 think you played with me something anything the key one yeah you should check out other than your own game the break browser your own friends you would I mean I love you Jess of course the Nama claps guys are doing beautiful work and development tools I'm obviously a major fan up the role of work that's happening today or to the obviously the station of work that the state channel team is doing is amazing and kind of bringing that together across the people NFD I really think smart go check wallets are absolutely crucial for a lot of important building improvements the Securities that's me so far yeah the technical side I'm really excited the meadow transaction l2 stuff that's happening from a consumer expect to have Emma disclose your relationship fiercest but there's where they've got this game five savings so you're depositing dye that's digital dollar and it's going into compound but every week all the interest is being collected together and one person randomly anybody to withdraw the ransom allotted time but it kind of game advise savings and this has been done before number of different countries have done it it's been different pilot programs and what it generally tends to to is it gets people who are almost like gambling or longer playing mindset and it converts that into a saving behavior so their principle is protected and it starts to build new behaviors that we can do this now and global scales that's building off multiple primitives that have been created in this space right it's building up the maker system which I mean was died of stableboy and spilling off a compound which maples this farming and mining vertical so I think it's it's really cool it's a very compelling for people who haven't tried any crypto or three up step yeah for me have been generally interested in that that helps users earn cryptocurrency that's like basically one of the best ways to get Adoption Institute is page one one that is constant so essentially it's a decentralized social network and you can post all this and I suppose and then you can speed or stake on the post if the post actually takes off the original poster and the early cedars get different cryptocurrency and one of the users actually have made it enough to buy a bike for his daughter and when I saw that I was like whoa you're actually by earning crypto you're impacting other people's lives and you know on top of that given all of this you know digital nomads like Google ization global work sports stuff some workers trend angry into the project awfulness so basically they would help this digital nomads get paid in cryptocurrency and they'll make sure that is you know really come by and they do all the hard work to do that and the last one I've been pretty obsessed with a canoe token and antique models oneness continuous organization it's a beautiful way to use on the curves to guarantee included automatically marketing with this mantra is very enticing to investors back a pushpot says well the the joy and CP order their first look ins when it used to be the case you'd have to mine it and that takes considerable technical that people would be able to buy them but so many people are just running their first look was these days a super exciting especially bring this I obviously very biased but this is also genuine answer it is one of the most exciting applications of the technology that in such a long time I spent a lotta time on Twitter apartment unfortunately and so I get to see people you have elated every month or they receive the pants for participating right minutes without having to divulge any of their private information did anybody West River it's still existing waves and waves of normal everyday people coming into this industry in such a little frisson manner and so it's been an absolute joy thank you awesome we can join meeting around more plausible speakers lastly just before they give you a chance to speak to the speakers I have three short announcements firstly if you're interested in these videos and more just follow even global on YouTube and we'll send you these videos and other videos they're all professionally recorded number two either mobile if they're interested in working with them were actually hiring marketing leads so if you're interested in putting on events like this on a global scale he needs to reach out to the organizers are typically so on and so forth lastly I wanted to think gatherings one more time for helping us make today possible is free public lecture and I also wanted to thank our friends at Shopify for helping us by giving us this beautiful space to have these talks so with that we'll wrap up and we'll give you guys a chance to fix anything but thank you very much [Applause]