06 - Swarm One: Fireside chat on data interoperability and data sovereignty with Črt and Antonio

the first thing uh we'll tackle will be a little bit of a chat of on data improviability and data sovereignty so i would invite antonio now to join and gregory if he's available hi antonio hello glad to see you nice to see you too so um i will ask you a couple of questions and you give inspiring answers as you always do antonio so yeah no not my days but just go ahead click yeah yeah so there are many problems to solve to bring the technologies of the web3h to become mainstream but today we put forward topics of data sovereignty and interoperability so how do you perceive the problem of data sovereignty the data today is being siloed how deep is this problem is it worth solving first of all i think that the problem with data today is the incentives that we have to to gather that we have multiple private companies that we all know uh trying to know that the size of uh of our underwear in order to sell more products and this is a very twisted way to get to get the data to gather that information from us and the winning the the a way to twist it it's possible but it requires to get away from this siloed ecosystem that only benefits the owner the creator of the the silo and then a good example for for this i would say it's the the promise that the the data marketplace could benefit all the participants in the marketplace not only the users or the for instance the advertisers if we want to keep on with the advertising thing the advertisers but also the marketplace and for instance if i if i own my data of the purchases that i make and that's that's a no-brainer it's it's i i do own it it's period it's my data if i own it and i actually put it into a marketplace with permission data somebody else can run analytics on top of that and create some uh some elasticity curves to to to match demand or too much switching if i buy for instance uh a pair of uh nike or shoes uh max uh maybe they can find out that after six months after i'm eager to switch to adidas and uh if that's the case in a public set of data they can actually give the the ideas for free because i'm i'm always i'm going to be a recurring customer and that's a win-win for everybody that's a win-win for adidas that actually sold me a couple of pair of sneakers it's a win-win for me i actually got some sneakers at the standard price or or a very low price and that's a win-win for the marketplace you can tag on top of that and that changed completely the the picture that we're in it's not about pushing ads to you which is actually the web 2.0 uh 1970s but it's a different way but the only way to do it the only way to do that is to create that bridges between different data and the only way to do it is to have the users the real data generators become the the sovereigns of their information thank you antonio so that's very deep and so actually uh the the next question is about the topic that you sort of tackle that uh your last uh the last time we had uh an event uh so you talked a lot about interoperability um and it is a large and complex problem many standards exist in theory we should already have interoperability so do you think it's a more of a technical problem or more of a social problem to tackle what is the best way to approach it i would say it's a social problem but it's it's complicated it's complicated because people are using a lot of tools but uh uh but the the it's a kind of we need to to to start thinking uh how to share how to how our data is going to be created and therefore how are we going to be able to share it it's not only we are used to just don't care about that and it's a it's a very it's a pity because there's a lot of value in the data that we that we actually manage so this will create so i would say it's a kind of both not only it's around creating standards well there's a big old joke with from xkcd that i'm not gonna go for that but creating a standard is a very complicated thing uh but the what what could happen is that we are actually understanding the value of owning our own data and and that that needs to happen with the different tools and that i i hope that we can like give a little hint of them today so actually we think uh that server data sovereignty and interoperability are are connected with sovereignty being somewhat dependent on uh interoperability of course um but how do you think that fair later principles come into play here so they're not defining any standard are they yeah they're maybe helpful in um respect anyway well that's a complex question i would say because it goes to back to ethics and to morals and what do you think of the data that should be shared with you or not uh but it's uh this is why it's it's since it's difficult to create a standard the way to do it is to create uh going up how you're going higher up in the the values of the chain so this is where we go from from from the actual code standard to a higher level which is the the values behind what is going to be shared what should be shared and what should not okay antonio so let's move on to to to usage of swarms so let's say that you were talking to a startup maybe developing depths so how would you explain swarm why why should they use it well it's really fun it's still really fun to to for any startup to use that because uh you know as a startup guy i kind of i kind of myself created a couple of ventures and they weren't well the difference different outcomes i would say uh but uh but the idea is that you always face this problem of how to deal with the data you know because you have logins you have a lot of people going into your thing going and you have to store that and you have to comply with regulations and this is always a pain it's a really it's a big pain and especially where it depends on where you live but there are different places in the world and of course it's not the same in everybody in every place but still it's a pain everywhere you have to store down you have to take it into account that that that thing very very well and the good thing about about giving back the data to the people is that to the to the actual creators is that you don't have to keep that record because you don't know who's going in you don't know who's who's the user you just provide the tool you just provide the service but the user comes he does his thing you get you get paid for that and then he goes away and this is a very very powerful thing and i think that it can solve a lot of the problems and uh it actually breaks the incentive uh the incentives problems that we were talking about we were talking about uh five minutes ago about how the web 2.0 is twisted and it can evolve into this new more civilized web so maybe the same thing how would you explain what to do with swarm to a cto of a large company well now we don't have startups but we have an established company so several things uh i would say that the the way to do it is that the way to pitch it to a corporate or corporation would be to actually give the gift back the promise that was there that giving back the data to the users this is something that the corporations have done a lot they brag about yeah we were respecting the privacy okay there you go here's your shot do it let's see okay and i think that this this is an opportunity for actually to bring together so unsilo the data and bring data closer to the whole ecosystem of players like large and small companies i think this is one major major advantage of this kind of storage so um antonio thank you uh i will ask you to stay on online uh for four comments so helping me sort of push this track through i mean this session