Andras Kristof | A Chat with Ether Cards

okay great um yeah so very excited to have andres from ether cards with us and dave and a few of their team members yeah so very welcome to have everybody here i'm yashin i'm one of the co-organizers for taipei ethereum meetup group i'm also the founder of radical exchange taipei chapter i'm also working with mccarra i'm the operations manager for hashcloak it's a blockchain privacy focused startup in canada um yeah so very excited to have the easter cards team with us and i'm happy to have like all the taipei folks here in this call today um so let me quickly introduce the speaker today so andreas is the co-founder and ceo of ethercards um and they've sort of like introduced us um so i met dave um at ecc in paris last year and he did the sort of like a magic trick um to all of my friends around me so it was very nice meeting everybody um yeah so um like to invite andres to share what he has with us should i get started or yeah go ahead okay okay uh all right so hello everybody my name is andres kristoff i live in singapore and uh we have been in the blockchain space for uh for very long we started in around 2013 we built and deployed the first bitcoin atm in asia in 2014 february then we forked ripple and created a distributed asset management system where we remove the xrp so it cannot be pumped and we put in ring signatures from monaro so it can be more private than normal xrp it went okay we got the got this funded but uh soon after this ethereum came out in the late 2014 so we started to work with ethereum uh ever since and we have been working with ethereum for many years now since the very beginning we worked with uh quite a few bigger players as well we worked with consensus we worked with the ethereum foundation we did quite a few projects for them and for example we did the nft ticketing for uh for the osaka defcon and if everything goes well we will do the nft ticketing for the bogota defcon as well whenever the defcon is going to be we don't know yet the the actual dates uh so we have been working in the space for long and we have been working with nfts for two or three years now we had a project uh about a year ago which was a which is a very interesting project regarding education and creating certificates on the blockchain uh and uh it was a very interesting project and we like was five four five months into the development when we realized that there is no strong business kid there is no strong monetization strategy for the project and then it kind of i started to think about what can we do to create a monetization strategy for blockchain projects that are not financial based we have a lot of projects that would need monetization on the blockchain but cannot get it because if you are not financial based you don't have a token that you can issue and then the number go up and everybody goes in and pumps it up and then you will get funded but if you are doing something very important let's say uh a privacy solution on the blockchain then good luck getting funded because [Music] you cannot release your own token and you can't really depend on vcs because most of the monetization strategy of traditional companies is to sell the user data and that is not going to happen when you are when you are building a proper blockchain based project so projects on the blockchain that are not financial based have problems getting properly monetized and we came up with a system which is an nft based system that can provide a monetization slash funding strategy for for such projects and what ethercards is right now is the very first implementation of that monetization strategy so eater cards is in itself is uh is a very good and timely project that has to do with monetizing and gamifying nfts so it's actually it's a very good timing because everything and everybody is about nfts these days but the the fundamentals and the foundations of the project is actually a monetization slash monetization slash fundraising strategy that can be applied to any other blockchain-based projects that are not financial based so this is the this is the introduction and now what i would like to do i would like to show you ethercards uh a little bit of a demo and more like a walkthrough of the of the platform and of the tokenization system as well and then we can we can discuss and if there are any questions then i will do my best to answer okay yeah so great thank you so let me share my screen and then see how it goes okay can you see my screen yes perfect okay fantastic so this is eater cards this is the teaser page for eater cards as you can see we've got this uh this counter that goes down every day it's very scary because because we still have a lot to do for the release but we will get there and then the page the rest of the page explains the project and the project has two parts it there is a platform and there is a token so let's take it in the same order and and discuss the the platform first if you go to the docs.eater.cards page then you will see some documentation and one of them is the platform yeah so the platform itself is is a monetization slash gamification platform that can be used by artists by nft token owners and by marketplaces to gamify monetize the nfts and to create engagement around it in short we want to build something so you can actually do something with those nfts other than showing them selling them and buying them in order to do this we going to release a set of games activities that the nft owners or artists can utilize to to make more use of their art or nfts or to create engagements around them the first thing that we that the the platform will release with is is a raffle reference are very simple con concept they weren't in discovered in blockchain but this one is actually implemented on on ethereum and how it works you have an nft that you that you want to that you want to refer you upload it to the smart contract you decide that you want to create 100 tickets and each ticket should be 0.1 ether for example and then you say submit you submit it the refer will will show up in the in the interface anybody can see the nft which is in the contract they can buy tickets and when the last ticket is sold then then the contract will reach out to chandling gets a vrf random number which is which is guaranteed to be random and selects the winner the winner can withdraw the nft and you can withdraw the money for the for the tickets i think i can actually show it to you this is on the test net so these are test images and trust test refers that we that we have created and if you go into one then you can see the nft that it is being raffled and then here you can actually buy the tickets and once all the tickets are sold yeah the winner will be picked so reference are very simple concepts yet it's it can be very powerful let's say you have a crypto punk you have a floor punk which is right now about 20 eater and you want to create uh a refer with it so you upload it into a contract and you say that you want to mint 100 tickets and each ticket should cost 0.3 liter so people will come they will see that you've got a crypto punk and they have a fair chance to get it for 0.

3 ether so they will pay the 0.3 ether and one of them will be lucky enough to to buy to to win the crypto punk so that person will have a punk for zero point reader and you will get 30 eater for your 20 punk so it is good for you and good for the person who who wins the ticket the second activity that we are coming out with is bingos bingos are also not a new concept but we but we built quite a few interesting things around it i can also show you a short demo of it we have actually a bingo that is set up here in this case this person has these seven cat cards in there and in their wallet and as long as soon as you open this page the the contract will see the relevant nfts in the connected wallet and will show these cards correspondingly the seven seven cats are also highlighted in the picture below but in the original artwork but you also can see that there is a lot of cats that are not yet highlighted so the objective of the game is to acquire the rest of the nine sets of cats get all the 16 nfts and when you get all the 16 different cat nfts then you can withdraw the price the price can be [Music] a lot of things it can be straight up either or it can be another expensive or vulnerable nft or it can actually be another eerc20 token so this structure can actually be used for for for promotions as well this is also very simple but there is a lot of interesting things can be done even with this simple structure you can even utilize a raffle to to help to to to finish your referral let's say you have collected 15 of the 16 cats but you cannot get the last one so what you can do you can for example open your own raffle and specify that last cat which can you can actually specify uh as as the only card that is needed to fulfill that referral and you say you put on two eater for that so somebody who has that card can they can go there they can submit that that missing cat nft they will withdraw the uh the two heater and you will get the last and a missing nft so you can finish your puzzle so in this way the rough uh the bingos can also be used as bounties and that also kind of highlights the another game mechanics which is uh which is true for all the games that we are going to release in order to win for example in order to win the bingo this this in this case you need to give up your nfts so in order to win the let's say 10 eater which is the which is the grand prize of this bingo you will have to give up the 16 cat nfts that you have collected so in this way it is also it is incentivizing the users to give up their nfts for short-term profit this is good for scarcity reasons as well the next question that is usually comes up how can you get these nfts if these nfts were minted somewhere else this is easy for example on on openc because it's part of a series then you can actually get them open c or anywhere else in the market but if you decide to to mint your series of nfts on ether cards then you can also specify the scarcity of each card so you can say this is this is the most most rare this is less rare and so on so on and also the maximum issuance of each card and once you specified all of those and the number of cards in existence and the images the system will automatically offer to create blind bags for you blind bags are again a simple structure which is which is well known blind bags are are sealed bags of cards that you that you will get like when you buy a bag of pokemon cards or magic the gathering or any other collectible card game you get a bag of cards but you don't know what's inside same idea here from the submitted data that the creator specified the system will will create different backs there could be actually be different bags there could be bags that are cheaper but has less chance of of getting uh getting the the rear nfts and there can be bags that are that are more expensive but it has more chance to getting the rare nfts in them so people who wants to collect the puzzle will come and buy the blind bags and then open up and see in what ways they can they can collect the puzzle they will have duplicates and those duplicates will be uh will provide ways for them to exchange with with other people who are trying to play the same game also in many forms you don't actually need to have all the cards all the time it is very possible to create bingos where you are where you expect the player to complete a row or or a column of cards and this can be done in a way that the the positions of the cards will be randomized based on the address they are coming from so the same for cats that helps me to complete a row will not help you to complete a row so the same cats the same kind of cats are more valuable for me and some other kinds of cats are more valuable for you this also helps with exchanges and to create a market around the series of nfts this uh this whole structure is very well known in in all around the world uh either a sealed bags of cards or or blind bags or gachapon where you need to where you where you buy something that you know what the type you are buying or the series you are buying but you don't know which element or which member of that series you are getting so the same mechanism here applied on the blockchain one very important thing about raffles bingos and all the other games are is that we don't take a cut we don't take a percentage the platform will take a setup fee let's say 0.1 ether to set up a referral or set up a bingo but then after that it's all yours it's your decision for how much you are how many tickets you mean for how much how much you are charging the tickets everything else we don't take a cut all we take is the first setup fee and the rest is it will be given back to the to the to the artist or the creator and this will be true for every single thing that we do on this platform so raffles and bingos are going to be the first two things that are going to be uh released and it's not all and you can use these not only by coming to ether cards but the the business development goal of the platform is to make these games and gamification and monetization strategies to to evil available for all the big nft marketplaces as well because we are not an ft marketplace we are providing a set of utilities which can be used by all by artists or nft marketplaces so it will it is possible for let's say openc or nifty or or or wearable to integrate with the smart contracts and make these games like refers bingos and all the upcoming other games available for their users natively from their platform without even having to come to eater cards this is good for us because if you take a small cut on the on the setup fee this is good for them because they create engagement and it's definitely good for the users and the artists because they can make more interesting stuff with their with their art and then with their collections and the future is that we already have six or seven uh additional games that we are going to release after the initial raffles and bingos and we will keep improving them and adding more so we will have an increasing tool set for creators and for marketplaces to to utilize and gamify their nfts and to actually be able to do stuff with it so this is the platform this is the ethercars platform and i would like to get back to the to the token itself but if you have any questions then please let me know and uh i will answer uh regarding the platform yes yeah yeah go ahead go ahead i was just gonna ask um people well whoever wants to ask the question right now yeah i i actually this is very interesting thank you andras uh and so so i was wondering so right now the platform seems to be serving i guess like for erc 1155 because i should right now it's seven twenty ones oh it's 721 yeah 1155 i'm sorry please go ahead because i thought uh like the token there will be replicated and duplicated tokens right and i thought for nfts like seven two one is every one like every single of them are unique right and so i originally thought it was like 11 55 so uh could you explain a bit on that yeah 1155 is a much better choice for the series and we are looking forward to implement that uh it's not us yet or not as well supported yet so we have to start somewhere we're going to start with 721s but we are really really looking forward to implement and integrate with 1155s as well also it is going to be much better from the from the from the gas usage point of view and everything else so it's absolutely going to happen but right now 720 1155 you can't even see them in metamask yet and so we decided to go with 725 first 721 first right uh then kind of follow-up question how do you treat the them as like duplicates uh in that sense is it with the metadata yes in the metadata and there is uh there is a a contract uh that uh that registers when they are being minted as part of the series it actually registers the the the id of the token and and the contract address so we can actually track it even if we don't track it in in the 721. awesome awesome okay then um i have kind of a parallel question to this um so um right now my impression is that the platform is used for well correctly if i'm wrong but uh the platform is used for monetization gamification of all nfts uh right now what i'm looking at seems to me it's for individual creators and i was wondering um is it um or do you have a tool set or like integrations for perhaps future protocols to integrate with it so for protocols i'm meaning like for for example maybe uh hash mask uh for example like cryptopunx future this kind of protocol to kind of directly integrate with you uh yes because i'm assuming right now it looks like the artists go on your website and then they like uh you know upload the image and mint uh these oh yeah yeah no no we will i'm sorry i should have explained that we will support all the major contracts of 721st you don't have to meet it on our platform ah beautiful absolutely absolutely we don't we don't want to lock in anybody we will support everybody who can who we can support from the from the contract point of view we just don't want to support random unknown uh 729 contracts because it can be abused uh but uh all the major platforms will be supported so you don't have to mint it guys i see so is it right now like a white list it sounds like it's a once yes it's a webcast yeah got it and so if there are upcoming project that wants to do this then yeah perhaps you have you would have some kind of form for them to fill out or yes yes that's correct that's correct yeah awesome thank you so much absolutely thank you thank you uh we can we can we can take questions later as well but let me explain the other part of the project the token itself because i think that's at least this uh this interesting or even even more so let me share who can sales part right thank you uh so let me share my screen again and and then and then explain that as well just give me a second okay [Music] all right sorry about that okay okay there we go here we go so that was the platform and this is the token the token itself is a 721 standard 721 no gimmicks in the contract and the token has or this ether card has two significant parts one is the art itself which is being created by artists some of them are very recognized and it has a serial number it goes from zero to nine thousand nine thousand nine hundred ninety nine so ten thousand tokens are together and it has all the usual suspects and thus and whistles of limited edition uh nfts forex is in this in this sense it is similar to punks and similar to hashmax hashmasks and and similar so this is the that is the art part and that is the the rarity scarcity part uh we also we also divide the the tokens into three major parts we have the by that by the number of digits in the serial number so we have the og tokens which goes from the series 10 to 99 so two digit numbers and then we have alpha tokens which goes from 100 to 999 three-digit numbers so we have 900 of these origins we have 90. and then we have the common tokens which goes from 1000 to 99999 9000 of them so we have this 10 000 tokens are being being divided into 90 ogs 900 offers and 9000 commons yes we get another 10 tokens which are the one digit numbers those are the for the founding team those are not going to be on sale so this is the token part and this is the this is the art and scarcity part i can i can talk a lot more about the collaborative art which is going to be on most of the tokens but i don't want to take much time with that because this part is probably well understood and well known by everybody the other part that is that is unique compared to the other platforms is the is the the feature tokens the trades on the cards so what will happen is when these cards go on sale uh in 16 days four hours 31 minutes and five seconds is is they're going to be minted with a random selection of random number of these traits we have uh more than 30 traits now and we're probably going to manage to introduce a couple of more before the before the release these traits are specifically designed to help and be useful in the context of the ether cards platform i will show you a couple of them some traits are good for creators some create traits are good for players and other traits are good for pretty much everybody you will see so let's start with this one so this trade is called the free bingo setup trade so if you have if you have a card that you buy on the on the 18th you have a card with this trade and you keep that card in your wallet which is connected to eater cards then when you set up a bingo a new bingo game you don't have to pay for it so this is going to be free for you just because just by holding this card in your wallet while setting up the bingo then you don't need to pay the the fee is waived for you very similar trade for that is the is the free raffle setup same thing if you want to set up your raffle you want to ruffle out one of your cards you don't need to pay the 0.

1 eat fee so it's technically free for you we take no money neither from the tickets nor from the setup because you have this uh this this free raffle setup trade there are multiple versions of these trades that are not displayed here for example there is a trade which is rarer than these which is basically free everything it means if you end up with a free everything uh trade on on your card then you will you will not have to pay for anything ever on ether cards you can utilize all the different services all the different games and you don't need to pay the setup fees or to actually meet a series of cards of course you pay the gas we cannot do much about that but we don't take any any from our side so these trades are fairly good for for creators we've got trades that are good for players as well i i did mention the the blind bags and that there are different kinds of blind bags you can get one that is cheap but but less chance of getting the good cards and the one is expensive but has much better chance of getting the good cards so with the lucky trade on your card which is connected in your wallet which is connected to the contract every blind bag you buy even the cheapest one is going to be the best one so basically this since just by having this trade on your card we will the contract will max out your luck another interesting trade is for players if you want to buy uh if you want to win a raffle and you are buying or a for ticket and you have the free raffle ticket to it then you don't get a you need to pay for your ticket but you get an additional referral ticket for free so if you buy one you get one for free i need to actually spec clarify this in the in the title uh so this is good for a player if you end up with a free referral ticket trade you will always get an extra ticket when you buy one technically doubling your chances when you when you enter a raffle and there are some traits that are pretty much good for anybody one of the best that you can get is the one percent royalty trade this is very straightforward and there is only one one percent reality trade in among the 10 000 cars there is only one instance of this if you have if you get this trade then every single service transaction that the ether cards contract receives somebody sets up a referral somebody sets up a bingo somebody creates a serious or in the future somebody sets up a different game one percent of every transaction goes into the wallet of the person who owns this card very straightforward and can be very powerful if the if the the platform ethercars gets proper uh traction i know getting uh having a one two one one to ten thousand uh chance is not much so what we did we're going to have one card with one percent chance one percent reality 10 cards with 0.1 percent royalty and 100 cards with 0.01 percent reality so all together 111 cards taking up three percent of eater cards [Music] incoming revenue for eternity obviously this is not something that a normal business can do a lot so these trades on these cards which are going to be on sale on the 18th are very special they are special in the sense that these are forever trees these don't have limits all the other traits that will be available later on because eventually there will be trades available on ether cards that you can buy and enhance your card but all the other trades or at least most of them will have limitations you will be able to buy a free bingo setup trade but that rate will have either an expiry date or it will it will expire after a certain number of usage so every trade that you can buy later on during the lifetime of the project will have some sort of expiry but the trades that are in the cards in the first inaugural sale will be forever and that's kind of it for the for these cards but the last thing that i want to talk about is that if you if you think about it this kind of cards and this kind of traits can be applied to almost any project on the blockchain and this is basically what when i was talking about a monetization slash slash funding framework this is the monetization slash funding framework imagine that the same thing can happen to virtually any project you can sushi swap can have a sushi card with trades that are designed for sushi swept for example you may end up with the trade that gives you a discount when you are exchanging two specific assets or or a set of assets in in one of the pools then you don't need to pay the full or part of the of the exchange fee and and the same kind of trade system with trades that that apply to the project can be can be very easily imagined and and worked out for any project from rothke app to a distributed vpn application or for ems or for any other project and so this can be a way to monetize the project and kind of extract out the the user management or or access management for features and also utilize this this kind of cards as sort of discount coupons and and and membership cards and so what we want to do with the with the technology with the underlying feature token technology that is basically the fundamental technology behind ether cards is we want to make it available for for anybody for any projects to utilize it and also to any project to to use it for fundraising and why i think that this is a very good framework for that because if you think about it with the cards like this there is a direct correlation between the value of the card and the and the traction of the project think about it for example this royalty trade if there is a lot of traction in eater cards the card with this royalty trade is going to be incredibly valuable but if nobody uses eater cards the card with the royalty trade will be absolutely worthless so this was one of the design goals behind the system is that we wanted to build a monetization and fundraising structure that where there is actually a correlation between the between the value of the of the issued assets and the the traction of the project so we we all remember the ico craze and we know that there is there was absolutely no correlation between how much the total convert and how well the the the project did i wanted to build something when there is a strict correlation between them and in this way a project can actually issue this card when they when they when they announce the project and people we can buy the cards with useful features which will be valuable if and when the project actually releases so in this way there is a way for a project to raise funds uh and to monetize their product on the blockchain even if they are not a financial project and as you have noticed there is no erc20s anywhere here it's all all nfts that's about it that's what i wanted to show you and explain and if you have any questions please let me know um so yeah so i wanted to ask like you mentioned the ico craze because um you were saying like the projects weren't delivered um you know like like do you want me to and then it doesn't really match up the cop tokens yeah was that was that one of the things that you noticed and then led you to the project itself yes yes absolutely because uh because i think it's absolutely disgraceful for that we have projects with a billion dollar market cap that is technically a ghost town and nobody is using it and the whole thing is speculation and i think this is this is fundamentally hurts the whole ecosystem and i wanted to build something that is much more difficult to use for speculation i wonder if dave has something to say you are muted amazing hello i think the thing which i think i've been telling everybody about this project is that it is an amazing combination of just so many things that we have been doing over the past what six years or so isn't it android i mean like uh so like you know the feature tokens that andres was talking about yeah he was talking about them a year more than a year ago because we yeah we have another project which is an educational project and he he came up with this idea about all kinds of crazy crazy things which really yeah yeah i mean like you know and i was just thinking yo the idea is fantastic but how the hell do you get the word out and you know and we've as he said we've been yeah we've been doing nfts for two years for the ethereum foundation uh we did a project nft based for consensus at tachyon and it's like all of these all of these strands coming together um so i mean it's just quite amazing and it's also the fact that i think we have all of a sudden we have just the perfect team together and a few other ideas that we came up with and we discussed over the last year so yeah i'm just like quite amazed because it sort of like went from the project has kind of gone from like nothing to being such an amazing thing within two months you know because suddenly andres said okay drop everything this is what we're going to do and he suddenly drawn all of these pieces together wrapped it up put the bow on top and we had all of the right team in place it was absolutely amazing it's it's interesting because um the ethercards project reminds me of i don't know if you remember uh virgil he was giving out a lot of gift cards like those those were our previous product uh there are yeah so that that was also us that was that was ether cards but that was a physical project uh product and it's credit card like yeah yeah but that's much i've got like 500 but it's it's a much more difficult and much less flexible product so basically we took the whole thing and made it virtual dave was showing us yeah there you go i'm just going to find out which cat which camera would you it's a very like like a gift or like yeah so you've got a yeah you've got this a stretchable thing there and you had past past phrases under it and you know these were very popular particularly at conferences and hackathons where they could give out tokens that you you know either they just hand you one of these and you get tokens that you can use during a project um so the good thing like you know the great you know the great thing about this was that at the moment we started talking about it um everybody said oh yeah ethercards we know you i think like you've been around for a long time yeah how did that like how did the product idea evolved from originally it was sort of a physical or credit card like i i don't even think it's an evolution it's it's it's a complete uh it's it's a 180 degrees turn yeah and uh we technically capped the car kept the name and kept the the shape but everything else is different and the product idea actually came from my desire to build something a monetization platform that can be used by non-financial products on the blockchain we've got some amazing projects and i'm sorry to say but they are begging for scraps they are begging on on bitcoin they are being handed donations and that is not correct vc's will not not touch the place the space mostly because which this is one hockey curve they want to monetization and how do you monetize you sell your user data but if you actually collect your user data then you are not an actually a blockchain project so so this is not uh so we see [Music] the the monetization that is usually desired by by most species traditional vcs is not applicable if you do that you are basically i'm sorry i'm i'm saying it very rudely but you betray your customers so that is out vcs don't like that don't like that you don't want to collect or and monetize user data and also the the blockchain community loves to use the projects but they also love profit so they will spend money on on financial projects they will spend money on on on yield farming they will spend money on food based pseudo financial instruments but they won't spend money on stuff that actually could be very useful for everybody for example uh a wallet or or ens or we can actually get out of the space blockchain space even things like mozilla which is probably one of the most important part of an open source tool set is is is having financial problems so what i wanted to build is something that can actually offer a solution for projects like this so you can use the blockchain you can be open source and you can monetize so that is the that is the fundamental uh most important message of the platform and then the monetization of the nf nfts and the whole very nicely beautifully built upside is just one of the applications of this uh of this technology and of this uh monetization slash fundraising technology um so what you're emphasizing is you're not building just another nft project it's more of a monetization and like how you create activities that will engage different users yes how do you see if if nft marketplaces is just one of the applications how like what are some of the other applications that you see think about it let's say pick any anybody let's say sushi swap sushi swap can release their own cards they don't need to be any eater cards is the same technology but they can be sushi cards it's an ft token which is sushi themed and you can have the teams the the traits of whatever makes sense for sushi for example you can have a trade that says you have you have a 50 discount on the transact on the exchange fee when you are exchanging your assets on sushi or you have access to this pool or that pool or you have access to this or that uh farming mechanism by having their appropriate trait on the card or you can do you can come up with the same kind of excess mechanisms and and monetization mechanisms for technically any project you can based on this reality system that we that we came up with it is possible to share the the revenue of of the project with the early supporters or and you can even set it up in a way that say that very very so basically we made an nfv that is programmable you can actually say that if you buy this nft you will get one percent of the of the incoming revenue up to ten times of the money that you paid for this card so you can come up with very elaborate ways of incentivizing people to get into this space and and support the project and you can say that if you get this if you buy this card now you will get free service so if you want to use that service anyway because it's let's say a vpn then you say okay i get this now yes i take some risk because it may or may not be released but if it gets released i will have a free service that either i can use it or i can i can sell it on the open market because it's an nft i can sell it for an upper market for anybody who wants to use it and it will have a high price so basically any projects that have features and and charges money for their customers can come up with a set of traits and a set of incentivization technologies for that is fitting their own project make sense yeah that totally makes sense potentially my protocols yeah do you mind if i ask some questions yeah go ahead please awesome awesome um and so first of all android uh i i really enjoyed this uh this i think it was a very noble noble goal i like like you know like looking at so many projects that they're having decent utilization but not having a proper uh monetization scheme uh this is like an awesome problem to solve and so i i kind of uh want to uh reiterate like my understanding on the monetization and and please correct me if i'm wrong um so one part of your whole monetization scheme is to increase the utility of something right so we're seeing the games all the game aspect are basically creating a utility for maybe a not really usable nft like it used to be just be selling right and so that's one thing that i'm seeing that you're trying to solve here like creating the utility now apart from that you're also providing the traits so these trait like system is like access control is like giving you like special rights right um so so i think generic to like different kinds of like protocols and systems right uh i i think that is awesome and i do say are this is one of the missing pieces but like because if you go to like normal company you know you have like vip access and stuff that is essentially enough train uh now one question i do have is on the royalty uh so for royalty that nft i was wondering what is the benefit or key difference with that and compared to your erc20 that's like your profit share mechanism right now let's say a project has has a utility has a um you know profiting and then i issue a token that that i uh distribute my profit and you will get the profit through like perhaps staking in the profit sharing pool uh does that like i kind of see like this nft being like a one single share that cannot be divided like i i kind of want to know your insight and your thoughts about like the key difference of these two yeah a couple of things one is what is a legal difference you can issue nfts but if you want to stay on non-anonymous a project that is actually the the the the project members are actually revealing their identity good luck issuing erc20s and and and get a lawyer's approval on that it is it is not easy but with nfts the same thing can actually be legally and properly uh uh created and since we are not issuing erc20 tokens we are we we use ether we use bet we use the ones that were issued by somebody else so what we give you is an access card it is technically a product this is not a financial internet this is a product this is not different from from uh from on from an access card this is a hard disk but anyway this is not different from from a physical access card just on the blockchain so this is one of the things and the other thing is that in this way we open up the possibilities for lots of uh of gamification for example we actually we don't know either either we even we don't know who is going to get the one percent it is going to be somewhere in the tent in the 10 000 cards and this opens up a lot of interesting game mechanics that you can actually gamify your fundraising gamify your monetization got it that totally makes sense thanks a lot thank you um and so i have kind of a follow-up question uh because you touched on the topic on uh incentivizing the early user right um so i was wondering how are you thinking about like around the topic of how do you distribute the cards how do you decide the rarity of these traits and then how do you like put them in perhaps different batches so what we do in this case is we came up with a rarity and we are frankly we are still fine-tuning and running tests on them and to make sure that we've got uh we've got a reasonable and feasible distribution of the of the of the traits so everybody will be happy but uh nobody will end up with like super powerful cards uh that has like every trait under the sun and a lot of this is trial and error at this point but i am working with with game designers and with a financial psychologist who is helping me to to get the the right kind of traits in the right amount on the cards god thanks a lot uh last question from me yes like before anyone jumps it um so so i'm wondering like uh like when you're talking about sushi swab and like they using like the same structure uh are you planning to open source the code yes yes everything the open source mit licensed and uh and this is the way as uh us uh yes everything will be open source and might license the and it would still work even even with that this is the point that's what we want to do we want to create something that is specifically targeting the open source open source projects because those are the projects that are having the most problems uh monetizing i think i should also add though that we're also trying to make it so that it's probably not worth anybody it it's a lot easier to work with us and just to you know to you know to work with us to white label the platform because because you know putting any project up takes a lot of time and effort yep and and and you got it right uh at the beginning when you when you said that this is just one application so the ito cars you can imagine this whole project as two distinctly separate projects one is the ethercars platform which is meant for it nft creators giving them monetization and gamification strategies to actually make those nfts useful and then we have the the feature token platform which for which the ether cards platform is just the first use case it's more like uh a pilot to show that it is indeed working uh but it is actually the the technology behind that it can be used for any other projects and hopefully it will be used for many other projects on the blockchain to to monetize and to and to to support the fundraising efforts make sense thanks a lot much respect for a project thank you very much so so yeah what are the upcoming [Music] uh well this is or i don't know like we yeah so so far so good we i don't want to brag but uh but we did uh we like out of nothing in three weeks we managed like 1000 people plus on the discord channel lots of new followers on twitter we did a small uh fundrais uh pre-sale which was very successful i don't want to say numbers but it was very successful so it looks like people are interested in this and we're getting a lot of great uh feedback from from people you could not even imagine i don't know if you know like anti-pro and typo synthesis on on twitter who is um who is basically an ethereum supporter and technically hates nfts because he doesn't see the reason for that and even him was talking about us and i didn't even promise him anything so and uh and it i we are getting this uh this very humbling and enthusiastic responses from the community and uh it probably shows that this will be we are on the right track to do not something not only something uh uh financially successful but also actually useful uh yes and uh uh we've got uh people coming to us and wanting to work with us i we had we had we are we are in talks already with one of the major nft marketplacers who wants to integrate with us they also want to do partake in the sale so some of the tokens will be sold at their place we also get one of the technically it's open news but i don't since it's being recorded i want to have the papers first we also get one of the big players in the space with 20 million active users want to work with us to to to integrate in many ways and see in what in what we can do together and we also get some great responses from artists and hopefully some other people coming into the space who who see the opportunity in the funding mechanism and in making nfts actually useful so what we want to do is we want to get to a space where uh get to a point where you sh you should not be able to do anything with nfts without utilizing this or something like this because plano and ft's that are just not good for anything will not be desirable by anybody so so far so good we've got it's it's it's it's a really extremely interesting uh this is the exciting time for you and dave and team members yes absolutely yeah um so also the people in in this call asked me like a few of them asked me like how can they get involved or like how like what things that they can buy or like we yeah visit ether.cards the the domain and visit our twitter join our our discord and then talk with me and i'll do whatever i can for you so because right now we don't have we we closed the pre-sale okay we because we we're going to launch a little bit later on the 18th we may have another pre-sale but we did not decide yet we are still working out the details and after that on the 18th whatever card remains will be issued on our platform we'll be immediately we will have an nftx pool filled with cards and liquidity so there will be liquidity on the nftx part as well and by the way this is something i'm going to use to support the early community they will get the nftx erc20 tokens i can do that because i did not issue them so legally i'm good and so nftx is coming online on day one we are discussing we are working with that as soon as we have the contract on mainnet right dave we uh we will do that and uh and also the sushi swap pool that provides the liquidity for the same thing for the nftx pool will be set up on day one so we're going to go out with full integration with all the meaningful parts of the ecosystem so i think it's going to be very exciting and hopefully hopefully very valuable for the for the people who support us what i foresee that on the short term it will be the art and the combinatory art on the cars that is going to drive the project but on the mid long term it's going to be utility the feature tokens and the and the trades on the cars that going to to drive the the project so if you're you're taking care of the technical side is that what you're doing um i'm i'm writing the code because andrash and loves writing code but suddenly i don't know how it happened he just suddenly found himself just a little bit busy so [Laughter] congratulations on the amazing program thank you thank you it's too early for congratulations but it's it's definitely promising but it's really really nice yeah you know that you know you look on twitter and you see the amazing positive feedback from just so many really well-known names in the space yeah yeah so i mean that is so hard for it and we've got yeah and we've got a lot of supporters who are helping us behind the scenes yeah they don't even want to be named and that's amazing yeah you're having another event coming up yeah today's time we're doing skl yeah i mean yeah with harris of course i mean i mean you know my background i mean i was i mean i'm both i mean both andres and i have contributed to hello gold yeah and harris came out of hello gold before he moved into etherscan so um yeah i mean harry said please you know come on board we'd love to so what which city are you based it's a card so it's just very distributed distributed i'm in singapore some of my team members are in singapore dave in in malaysia kingston is in malaysia mariana she is the community manager she is in in spain i've got artist managers in in in hungary i've got uh supporters and advisors in the us so it is it is it is it is very distributed as well haven't we i'm sorry we just got australia on board as well that's right that's right we've got our first hire from australia as well uh yeah so a lot of um job openings and people who are trying to find jobs in taiwan too so i don't know if you're hiring for more people yes yes definitely reach out to taiwan communities as well absolutely yeah so thanks very much for your time thank you very much enjoyed the presentation and the sharing and yeah the updates from dave thank you very much i can i send messages here yes i can so if you want then you can contact me at andres eater dot cards if you if you allow me to do some like uh advertisement here and on twitter we are at ether dot cards and the project is on not surprisingly on ether dot cards so please please reach out please ping me and i will do my best to get back to you and help you if you have any questions or if you would like to collaborate we are looking for collaborations as well we need to make sure that we we make the best out of it and with integrate with the community from day zero yeah so so if mccarrick will think of something we'd love to work with yeah i think he knows i'm a big fan so i know um thanks very much and thank thanks everyone for coming to the event um so i want to uh say a few things about the next event um so the next event is organized by oscar who is the lead protocol for vac p2p the status wallet project um so he's having this event on wednesday march 24th it's going to be an in-person meetup and the topic is about polynomial commitments and evolution of corporation bittorrent incentives so cc lam will be talking and an oscar will also be talking and if you'd like to um become one of our speakers at either papers we love taipei or or radical exchange or taipei ethereum group please feel free to to drop me a message and let me know yeah so thanks very much i appreciate your time so we'll end this event now thank you bye thank you bye bye