Anon Founders Panel

[Music] [Applause] [Music] i want to welcome chef maki scooby troubles and rogueitachi on stage they'll be talking about everything that means to be to be an in this world right now and in everything that they're doing in the world of defy so i'll save the intro for our moderator who will be broke and uh i'll ask them to turn on their video and and i mean unmute themselves and uh get us started so welcome everybody great to be here yo yo thank you uh my uh there we go now my video is looking good um yo what's up my fellow anans apes big brains and all the normal people out there listening um for those that don't know me i'm rogetachi i'm a founding member of young capital um and anon dao and just a general degen here in the krypto and d5 space i want to say i'm super honored to be here to moderate this event thank you again to eve global for letting me hop on the mic here at eath online which is such an awesome event so with me today i have two awesome non-panelists that will surely be shaping the future of france before our very eyes first i'd like to introduce one of my oldest friends in the space a man who i admire not only for his talent but his awesome personality and principles that of course is scoopy troubles scoopy is one of the founding members and core developers of the protocol alchemix an ingenious protocol that leverages defy to allow users to take out self-repaying loans that can never be liquidated one might think it to be magic but in fact it's the work of a brilliant team with incredible execution the second panelist with me today is someone who has done just about as much for d5 as anyone in my opinion a developer who has helped build a protocol that is innovative ever-growing and fearless in its vision this is someone who the day they followed me on twitter was the day i knew i had made it and would also need to get my act together and start tweeting things of value because smart people were reading them i am of course talking talking about these chef ox maki co-founder and advisor of sushi swap i'm super excited to have the chance to chat with both of you anans today welcome guys it's great to be here thank you for the thank you for the intro yeah thank you of course of course so like you both i am a non as well though i'm going to non-degen so not quite as glamorous as you as you builders um but i found that being a non has a lot of benefits especially in terms of privacy and safety that said there is one problem that haunts me over and over which is having to answer the question to the people in my life what do you do for a living what exactly is your job i usually answer with some version of like oh i'm in finance or i'm a financial consultant but the other day a girl i was talking to was like yeah me too and then started grilling me on exactly what i did obviously i did the only rational thing i could at the moment which was to turn around and sprint away but i'm curious what do you tell your friends family and strangers about what you do for a living like how secretive are you do you have a like cover story we can um start with you yeah so with me on this one um very few people in my life know um that i'm scoopy triples and what i'm doing um it's just you know my immediate family like my my wife uh and you know a couple of my close friends who i know like irl before you know i got into crypto also know uh who i am but other than that i just have a pretty good cover story which is that i work as a as a software developer and they ask me what company and i actually i actually was working for a d5 protocol uh as a front-end developer before i got into alchemics um and so i just tell people i work for them so if they really want to know but everyone else you know who doesn't know or think i work for that company uh thinks i work uh just in i.t so you know okay so you do kind of say that you work in crypto you're like oh well i work as a you know i at least work for a front-end developer for for this crypto uh you know yes i just haven't told them that i left that place and started alchemics that's all just a minor detail i mean i i just you know don't want people to know you know just right like that i just i think for me it's more like i just don't want people to treat me any differently and that's why i'd like to keep it a secret you know because right yeah well that makes sense uh one of the reasons why i chose financial consultant too is because it seems really boring and so i feel like people don't usually ask follow-up questions and i feel like software developer while it's not boring it's more of like it's so general that like people don't really ask follow-up questions so that makes that makes sense yeah what about uh just about you maki um to you you know like usually i just say i'm in finance and if some people start to quiz me or ask i just say that i do hft i mean i read a book like flash boys a while ago michael lewis was pretty good and i was just like oh yeah there you go hft trading and it is what it is and i think people want like no one knows about it what is hft so they just like give up straight up otherwise like for friends and family like kind of uh very close friends and kind of you know family members they kind of know the problem is and that's the thing with scoopy that he is not saying here yet is that the moment you're going to go to events or like be kind of surrounded by people in crypto your voice is dogs so it's going to be way harder to kind of uh to to camouflage or to like just stay hidden so um i had to deal with this not that long ago and basically like someone just told me hey i know you um there is not many people with the same voice that went on but yesterday i was like oh [ __ ] i'm too wrong and you know actually like the person was also had on so that's when well but uh what what what i found the most curious about this the same anan was i was saying uh for leaving wazoo absolutely nothing and that's kind of i don't know that that just stuck with me i was like oh some people are just not even trying anymore so that was great but uh anyways yeah at conferences it's another topic i guess right yeah all right i get that i'm not sure when i'm gonna actually go to a conference it's been you know this whole corona thing and i think there was like a recent event where a lot of people ended up getting corona and i mean it just sort of seems like you know this repeating you know theme and you know i don't want to make it this far and then you know get it before i'm double vaxxed and all that stuff and you know a bit at the very end so i'm just playing it cautious until all then along with the the voice docs thing you know uh i uh host the goodwill hunting uh podcast uh goodwill yanting sorry podcast and uh me and other youngs hop on and talk to people and uh we actually had on like our second episode one of uh our fellow younes got voice docs by someone who worked with him he just got an email that said like hey you sound really like this guy on this podcast is that you he was like oh crap crap crap no [Laughter] yeah there's not much you could do at that point but it's okay so kind of along the same vein i often find myself like wanting to tell friends family and even strangers what i do because i find crypto and d5 so exciting and fascinating and i think there's so much value that other people can get in their lives from it yet i don't want to spend six hours explaining the basics of it to a boomer who will just like call it a scam or a stranger who will follow me home and hit me over the head with the renter or something so do you have like irl people that you talk about crypto with who aren't really in the scene how do you like kind of balance the excitement of what you guys are building which is so cool and also like wanting to be safe or not lose brain cells talking to normies about crypto um when i was really first getting into crypto uh back in 2016 and 17 i was like like trying to evangelize like everyone you know poor summer child i was at the time and you know i almost had a few people get into it like you know back in like december 2017 and then like you know the crash happened after that and the bear market and you know people were just like oh how's your crypto doing and kind of like laughing at me like in 2018. so it's like i've kind of learned not to really talk about it with many people from that you know because you know god forbid they actually fell moving at the top and it got wrecked um you know that would have been something i would have to live with so i i try not to talk about it with uh you know people you know in my average you know everyday life too much uh but a couple of my friends approached me because i know i'm into it and they want to learn more and when people are like that like you know i'll talk to them and educate them um you know tell them stay away from eos and cardano so um but and i have a like one of my friends uh he's he's really into it and you know we talk about it like uh you know pretty regularly but you know other than that like you know i don't really try to mix uh crypto with a lot of my you know friends in real life because it's not like something people want to talk about all the time not everyone's as obsessed with it as we are right and i want to be the crypto guy you know what about you maki um i i think you know like it's kind of funny because a bunch of my friends uh and you know like people i know that were asking me about crypto i gave them a small list of things to do like try out like just a take like 500 bucks by eat and just try all of these these steps and you know among these tabs there was like dydx and basically like everyone got like a you know like a fat airdrop like not that and and basically like for some of them like literally like yeah for them like one of them paid like all of his student loans with it um and kind of you know basically was able to make it a quote unquote for for them it's a you know massive massive air drop and they've been since then like you know like ringing the phone and pretty much like uh getting seriously into it because they just feel like this is madness and i told him yeah that's just an air job no biggie you know there is like right it happens it happens quite differently you know like it's adorable yeah this size is is yes it's a it's a big one but anyways so that kind of motivated them to kind of study or dig dig deeper of course like uh you know they can always find uh someone that will help them in me but i'm not too much evangelizing anymore because people just literally i got banned from a few before not crypto but friend circles because of it because i was talking too much about it so uh i'm quite i'm quite intense regarding crypto d5 and so on even with my friends like not just with community and within strangers online so anyways um but for the erl part like in in real life um people like just you know you talk about crypto it's always like oh i i've heard about bitcoin and then it's just like they don't push the discussion further and to be honest i'm not too interested the only thing is at some point i was in a shop i went to the shop and i strolled with i think my sushi cap because i have a sushi cap and uh um for me i'm kind of you know hiding in plain sight sometimes and anyway um the sales associate there was just like hey i know this logo this is sushi i was like indeed i love sushi and they were just like they didn't know what it was little did they know yeah exactly it's like what do i say what do i do and then it's like uh where did you hear about it oh it got added to um like a robin knew it or like the the equivalent locally something like that and i was just like oh okay cool and i asked you know is everyone in the store into crypto and she said oh the whole staff is trading i was like nope i was like this is crazy you know you you just walk in a random like clothing store and she told me like yeah there's five six people here are like all trading crypto i'm like what i was shocked and uh i asked what was their biggest all things and uh they told me about i think it was like extremely like [ __ ] coin heavy like l ron l run something oh beautiful q empty and i just told her i said you know i think you know you should consider anyway and i asked her like do you know about metamask and she said no i said oh okay so we have like we have people investors or you know like people you know dabbling into this place that are not even aware of this yet you know they only stay in their own little gardens and that was uh yeah it's just i eye-opener because for me like minamask is a it's kind of a no-brainer but apparently it's uh for some people like you don't even want to consider like dabbing more into this like desktop-wise and so on so very interesting to to talk with people that are like exposed but in another way than us usually yeah no absolutely that's that's a hilarious story um so kind of going into the dows and governance one thing i feel like normies in the future might be afraid of where the idea scares them is like trust in anonymous doubts um and in terms of government governance and i think it's funny because i don't know anyone in young capital dao in real life and yet i trust them as much as anyone and literally with you know my money so i'm curious do you guys see an anonymity as a hurdle beneficiary or non-factor when it comes to trust in dao's governance and generally between people and crypto kind of now and moving forward um i think you know like somebody like maki and someone like myself we have like online reputations built up um already and because of that um you know if we do something bad like you know that reputation that we have is going to go down with it and you know that takes a long time to build up um you know and it's not like any of us could just you know switch to a different alt and then you know have it be the same as it would be as you know who we are now in fact a lot of people would probably be like oh yeah this this all this you know that scammer scoopy blah blah blah blah or something like that so you know there's there's you know a lot at stake for for us to be good actors um especially you know you know i'm obsessed with crypto and defy and i can speak for maki you know i know he is as well and like why would we want to like banish ourselves from the space just you know to earn a quick buck or something like that you know it's given so much to us i feel like it would be foolish uh you know to do something you know some heinous act uh abusing you know our power um where as like you know in our case i don't i don't think it's really hurt us in fact sometimes being anonymous is is pretty nice uh in a lot of ways uh because you do get to keep your privacy you know at least for most people um but like if you're like a new person starting out you know and you don't have any you know following online or credit online you don't have a relationship so with other people in the space and you launch something and you're anonymous then i think people are going to be a lot more skeptical of someone like that right interesting what are your thoughts maki um yeah i mean the fact that you shouldn't be trusting adam that's for sure um i do think like scooby said like very quickly like um short-term results for short-term gains and shorten short-sighted people are gonna be kind of outed very quickly and we kind of see it with everything that happened the rocks on dsc and so on so in my opinion like the true builders and so on are going to be staying for the long term game you know there's like it's going to be easy to identify in the long run um usually like interacting with this anonymous dials and so on um i do think you know like whenever like there's a new entrant uh participants or you know someone that wants to create something new etc um it's always like there's more scrutiny and you know like there shouldn't be any um how can i say like uh no checkpoint or no verification of what is happening at the code level and then from there you can move on um there should be like checkpoints you know like time locks or yeah like making sure and like admin keys and multisig etc like just to make like their life more complicated and overall like securing kind of the doubt uh because we don't want to have like any other any problems and then that is to me the only kind of barrier aside from that i'm pretty comfortable with people like using um sodos and kind of personas online character whatever yeah i think it's like the culture you know of crypto to be situated and a lot of people do choose to you know be public and you know rebuild their identity but you know like from the the beginning you know the the creator of cryptocurrency and of itself was a pseudo-anonymous person um and poor persons um you know and i think it's you know as long as people like pseudo-anonymous you know developers and actors uh you know act you know with morals and ethics you know then i think you know it's fine and and i think the more people do that the better it'll be for the space because you know they'll be i wouldn't mind the yeah i don't trust them less and you know we've seen some very cool example of this by the way uh with uh olympus dow that you know kind of sprung up from nowhere and like built every dedicated community so alchemix is another one sushi uh honestly like it's kind of a never-ending list at this point yeah no i totally agree um so i think we've talked at length kind of what it means to be a non right now um so let's find out what you guys are doing as a non devs in this space uh let's start with maki so we all know sushi started as an amm but it's grown to be so much more since then sushi's now deployed on multiple chains has awesome new products like bento and kashi and you've created partnerships with some of the best protocols in d5 for either other developers out there or investors looking for the next sushi what do you think is the kind of secret sauce to a protocol having so much value growth and development in such a short amount of time really um you know like in the case of me when i was involved like on the day-to-day at sushi um it was kind of a multi-like one-man one-man army kind of type of situation for me initially um you know it was the one that i was recruiting team was the one that was also um you know building a partnership i was the one getting marketing investor relationship uh even like mining like the discord community manager quote unquote so it was kind of a multi-prong approach um where like it was also like doing strategy and basically like over time this kind of grew into a team of you know like 24 people um even 25 i think now and basically like just like trying to dedicate as much as i can on areas that you know people were better at and so on and so like i felt comfortable kind of stepping down because i felt uh the whole team was you know like tighten it together and basically like able to run the day-to-day and myself you know like it's kind of exhausting also being in d5 like 24 7. so that was another consideration and um and regardless uh there's also like many other new challenges that i want to explore so well contributing to sushi um with them anyway so i think for finding the net the next uh sushi or alchemics you need to have like passionate builders uh that are gonna be i think you know being a crypto native also helped tremendously uh people that know exactly how to like you know what is gonna be beneficial for these new protocols um of course like the technical aspect is always very important but the truth is it's better to have something that is accessible that is easy that is um friendly on the ui ux and the onboarding then something that is revolutionary on the thick side um you know like sushi itself and the amm like it's not nothing crazy it's only like a 4k v2 but we're we've still been able to onboard many people that were not kind of used to being lp via like you know incentives or you know like just the way we're kind of uh supporting everyone that just joined our discords and so on so there was this aspect that is very important i think in growing a product and then for the next ones i from what i've seen what is like really working well for bootstrapping this community nowadays is um a mix of airdrop incentives and then a kind of uh i don't know like communities that are like almost cult like or you know there's like some i don't know but there is like this this is a this genesecular factor where people are drawn into it whether this is with an emoji whatever this is with a meme like 33 or um you know like i've seen lately what i've seen is tokemak doing like this kind of gamified governance thing with voting and so on that just like appealed to various um that appealed to various uh communities uh so i think there was like 42 tokens that were selected that could basically [Music] vote for having like a reactor and that created like a lot of attention from these third parties into this project looking like for liquidity i was just like this is pretty cool way to bootstrap like communities you know like it's just like novel use case um to just grow overall right no absolutely yeah the uh bet on memes and cults uh but no i totally understand and um you know i'm just being in d5 is exhausting i can't imagine building 24 7 especially like you're talking about with being kind of wearing every hat in sushi early on you know that must have been crazy um but let's move to you now scoopy uh you and the alchemics team change the game with the protocol that provides self-repaying loans that can never be liquidated for me alchemix is a paradigm shift because this idea kind of along with your ideas for the dow can be foundational blocks for really infinite possibilities in what ways is alchemix aiming to develop its utility for its users and and defy as a whole in the future um yeah so um i'll take this moment or this opportunity to talk about v2 uh which is the next thing that's coming out from uh alca mix um so basically right now in alchemics you can have one collateral in one strategy it uses to borrow uh an owl asset so for both al usd and al eth we are using uh urine to do that um notably missing um like for um lusd is we only have dye as a stable coin that can be used as a collateral to borrow al usd so in v2 that's going to open up to uh a number of other stable coins that will be accepted as collateral um and you know you can you know think of any of the major stable coins um and a lot of the up and coming decentralized stable coins they will be accepted as collaterals and we're also working um with uh trying to accept lp tokens you know stuff like curve lp tokens like things that are stable swap and maybe you know trident if you guys are already soonish not sure when um but and so essentially if we expand the amount of collaterals that we accept except for iusd and then we also allow like lp tokens to be accepted as well it's going to allow us to um offer people uh lots of different options and not only will they have like a different stable coins they can put in and in different ways they will be able to choose from multiple strategies so they can sort of build their own meta-yield aggregator inside of alchemics by mixing and matching their collaterals across the are there deposits across different collateral types and strategies um so they can optimize it for themselves um whether that's for maximum yield or for risk tolerance um you know people can sort of it's like sort of like a factory to build your own uh you know yield strategy which you can have diversified across lots of different things and then all those positions can be added together to be your aggregate um sort of balance and alchemics in order to mint out usd um and that kind of thinking will will extend to al eth and we're also going to be bringing lbtc out as well so there'll be you know different types of btc collateral different types of eth collateral think like you know steak um steak eats from lido rocket e things like that would also you know be accepted um and then kind of later on we're going to be doing like what i like to call alt chemix which is expanding our offering of you know al assets instead of right now we're aiming for the big three stable coins ether and bitcoin but after that we'll be uh you know trying to find other coins in the defy ecosystem in order to bring alchemics to them so you know maki there might be an al sushi one day uh so should be there should be there should be by the way and just like a small like uh intervention here about like this um and that is i think overlook a little bit like treasuries could also use like all sushi as a mechanism to basically like diversify their treasure in my opinion this way they kind of earn yield on it without being incredible and they can like just uh you know like do a huge bet on all sushi get the all usd and basically like buy whatever they need or just take all usd so to me that is like super cool yeah we're yeah alt chemix is going to be definitely a part of uh of uh version 200 going into the four into the future we're also going to be uh trying to do uh multi-chain you know targeting you know l2s like arbitron and side chains you know like uh polygons so those are definitely like the ones that we'd probably be targeting early on but wouldn't limit ourselves to just those um so that's going to be part of our plans to expand um and then we're going to going to be like revamping uh you know the governance procedure by having like an unchained dowel that's going to be a custom contract that we have it's going to have some pretty unique mechanisms in it that i think hopefully will be getting copied uh in the future but yeah that sounds awesome oh man a lot of a lot of great alpha drops maki now you have to show him up can you drop some alpha about uh trident and maybe some of the cool stuff you're working on in the future just in general um and right now i'm looking at the two things for sushi i can see that you know like trident is around the corner um show you like the contract have been deployed to mainnet i believe yesterday or so like uh levex posted them um on social media so in theory everything is good there's only the ui um that needs to be basically like started i guess so that should be as soon as possible and um so you know like this is going to be our next kind of release on this front uh besides that for me like personally like i'm just taking this off for like you know a few more weeks i'm exploring kind of a tax efficient uh sub protocols like how to make all of this highly technical efficient for users of d5 and then omni bridge so these are kind of the two things i think there's like a very bad ui on all these multi-chain bridges right now and there's not like one to rule them all so i'm just kind of trying to study and kind of see what is happening with various of them like there is like multiple model right now um some are keeping custody of assets which is not really device friendly in my opinion uh and that caused like a security risk some others are doing like uh mirror lp pools um you know there's a pool on polygon there's a pool on bsc and kind of um that's the way to kind of transit between them i think that is not i mean as capital efficient per se so i'm kind of just you know like exploring um looking for the next thing i guess in d5 uh keeping up with a bunch of things um there's like you know like tokyo mac and olympus like the bond mechanism i've been very surprised with it and then talking about like for i think use case with single side uh liquidity providing that can be enabled with this is it might have been like super exciting and then like you know overall like uh just trying to see whatever like the dj's are up to these days and like there's a bunch of things on avalanche and solana ontario on the multi-chain level that i haven't kind of paid attention to that i'm kind of diving slowly into um and who knows we'll see what happens i guess at this point it's just like recovering or not recovering but like starting to rediscover again some of the stuff i might have missed basically right i think that makes a lot of sense and sounds super exciting um i'll be keeping my eyes out for all of that and any of the other stuff you're building and of course scoopy v2 is high on my radar and i can't wait for all the exciting developments you you and the team are working on um i think we are at time here unfortunately uh do you guys want to show yourselves drop your twitter talk about anything you want people to look at projects whatever um yeah i mean we're alchemics is currently number two in the uh took my core event so i mean if anybody you know who has uh togeth you know hasn't voted yet we'd appreciate your support uh to get us your reactor uh that'd be pretty awesome um you guys can find me on social media at scoopy triples and it's spelt s-c-u-p-y and true so but if you search scoopy with a double o i think you can find me anyway awesome maki anything to drop anything to show yeah for for everything uh sushi related sushi swap on twitter or you know xerox mackie where you can follow my uh my inside or things like this there's gonna be some alpha dropping very soon so stay tuned awesome and just for me if anyone wanted to give me a follow for some reason i'm at the rogue underscore uchiha yes follow this man yes alpha exactly well uh scoopy monkey thanks for that amazing conversation rope thank you so much for facilitating of course all three of you deserve an equal recognition for uh everything that you're doing in this ecosystem and i can't wait to see what everybody does next so please follow all of these people on twitter and uh you know we'll be sure to bring you on for a future event and go deeper into everything that you're excited about next so thanks thanks so much thank you thank you thank you [Music] [Applause]