PANEL Accelerating Real World Adoption of Stablecoins

baby [Music] hey everyone well hey everyone I know we just all got done eating so you know we're trying to not fall asleep so you know we're gonna have a great panel my name is gabo Congo I'm I'm here to present uh a panel on accelerating Real World Adoption for stablecoin and I have great panelists with me um I'll be present to you all of them so we have Pascal talarida from Jarvis all right perfect we got Yvonne Hong from request Finance we have Jan gerardi from Mont belong and we have Marek osenski from Silo Silo Sea Lab hey everyone all right so um I'm gonna let you guys a little bit you know present yourself to the crowd and then we're gonna jump more on how stable coins really are you know like real world adoption and mostly like wow we need them because that's actually a real good question so please talk sure maybe I'll go first um it's really great to be here so my name is Merica I'm one of the co-founders of cello if you are new to cello cello is a proof of stake evm compatible L1 and perhaps soon to be in L2 just today we at Sea Labs put up a proposal to turn turn cello into an L2 so we'll see how the community votes on that um but you know Cello's origin story starts five years ago and we tried to build a really easy to use mobile payments wallet on top of ethereum and we couldn't get the experience that we wanted we couldn't make a wallet that was easy enough for you know billions of people to use and so that took us down the path of launching our own evm compatible layer one that had some features that would enable you to build really easy to use applications specifically focused on on payments and stable coins and so the first of these features is the ability to pay for gas with tokens so on seller you can pay for gas with um any erc20 token that's been approved through engine governance right now there's three stable coins that are approved um cell also has the ability to send payments to phone numbers uh which is really easy which makes it really easy to send value and there's really great use case for stable coins and it also has a ZK snark based like client that lets you use it on mobile devices so yeah that's hello and that's me thank you uh hi everyone my name is Ivan I am the content leader at request Finance request Finance is probably the world's largest crypto payroll expenses at invoicing app today we launch in January of 2021 one of our first clients was maker Dao and today we oh as of last month we've crossed over 350 million dollars in crypto payments of which about 60 is in stable coins actually three percent is in cusd um request Finance is chain agnostic and we're also token agnostic we simplify and automate a lot of the payment processes to make it easy for Enterprises to use crypto payments for things like payroll expenses invoicing um I think one of the things that motivated request Finance was actually having to make crypto payments ourselves as an Enterprise level and if you think about most of the payments that you make in a given month or in a given year um peer-to-peer is honestly like maybe one percent five percent if I'm being generous right so if we are looking to gain Mass adoption uh it's wild that you can't do all those things that you normally are used to doing in web 2 or tradify with within crypto right and so we design an app that feels like a banking app like a web 2 app but it runs on crypto payment rails hello everyone my name is Pascal from Jarvis at Jarvis we focus on building non-usd stable coins like Euro series rank but we have an approach which is a bit different we don't try to be the biggest or to have a high tvl we try to focus a lot on usage so we focused a lot actually with requests in montpellar for the on and off ramp for payment for companies and and so to help companies to hold their Euro on chain instead of in a bank account and so yeah the specificity of our protocol is that you can bowl our stablecoin from the protocol but you can also buy the stablecoin from the protocol without an easily page so this allows you to have high liquidity and and this is the main feature of our protocol hello everyone my name is Ayan I'm from montpeljar we are a regulated Swiss company doing on and off from services and we've been here since 2017 and from the start we are big Advocates of self-custody and in our in our starting point was that you know we should have easier ways to to get in and out of crypto in self-custody you know directly using your own wallet in alternatives to to centralize exchanges so so our mission is really to to make this entire process of getting getting in and out of crypto as easy as possible and as cheap as possible and as smooth as possible all right thank you thank you very much so you know let's dive in what now can you take us back to the early days of table corn like why were the initial challenge that you guys face is because I mean you know five six years ago stable coins didn't mean anything to anyone and uh you know now we're here and how do you think this will shape our future sure I mean I think if you if you go back um I mean back to to the early days um back to when kind of maker first launched um you know I think um you know thinking back then you know oracles were a big challenge right um um certainly a lot of the protocols were were still early in terms of their designs um and so I think there was a lot of experimentation and you know I think we've seen um the results of all of that experimentation over the last few years but the thing that um I personally missed the most back then and this was the reason that that we worked so hard on this feature was you know just the fact that if you sent the stablecoin to an address that that didn't have eth on it you couldn't then send it on to anyone else um I don't know maybe show of hands who here has like sent a stable coin to an address and then realize that it's stuck and they couldn't do anything with it I think we all did this at least once like you know right when you navigate that space you make mistakes to understand though it's the most frustrating experience ever and you know it's frustrating for us imagine how frustrating it is for kind of the next billion people that we're trying to onboard um and so so that that's really why we invested heavily in in this native support for paying for gas with tokens and and it's quite magical um you know I think you know when you send so on cello there's a number of different stable coins Mento the mentor protocol is is the probably the the most well-known one um I think there was someone from mentor and Nadim on the stage here in the morning uh talking about that protocols it's a really interesting design but um you know their goal is to launch a stable coin for every currency in the world and their goal is to have each of those currencies each of those stable coins be gas currencies on seller and so um you know in the future you'll be able to send any any stable coin for any currency and pay for gas with that stable coin which not only is just really amazing for ease of use it actually unlocks um a really cool experience where you know we were talking a lot about cash and cash out you know imagine if you can cash in directly into a stable coin perhaps a stable coin that matches the current currency that you use at home and then be able to actually go by nfts go participate in web 3 without having to then do anything else and do it in a fully self-custodial way and so that's something that I think we still don't have yet um but I'm excited for the future because I think it's coming sure so I think I'd like to go back a little bit more Beyond just like the origins of stable coins because I think that money has a long history of evolving um and I think stable coins are just the evolution of digital payments right it sounds unsexy it sounds not so revolutionary but it is um we used to have commodity as cash right and then we deposited those with banks that gave us Bank notes that were depository receipts effectively and then now we deposit those things in ATMs that we have digital cash right so is it a step too far to think that we will deposit them with staplecon issuers and get stable coins instead um so yeah I I'm quite excited to see you um a lot of the improvements in the user experience especially because I think there's a lot of things that can be done in the infrastructure layer like gasless transactions account abstraction um but I think there's a lot to be done in terms of the user experience for Enterprises there's a lot to be done for I mean think about it if you make it difficult for Enterprises if it's difficult already for us to use stable coins to make payments um as retail users the CFO of a large company is going to look at that and be like can I push that data to Oracle netsuite for accounting no sorry I'm not going to use it right and then you don't get that option so I'm quite excited to see a lot of the new tooling that's coming up around making stable coin payments usable for Enterprise use cases so so for you as as Economist because you are an economist as Economist it goes through Enterprise first then users yes I I think the retail users are going to have are going to form an important base of people who use it in High Velocity but I think that enterprises are key to distribution so it's more it's more the for you the Enterprise the more the the influence to follow than Banks like black rocks or yes because uh Enterprises like the role that they play in the economy is very simple they provide goods and services right um and that That's the basis of transactions right we want food we go to an Enterprise who provides food right we want um a service Done Right For example smart contract audits right and that's the only reason we have a desire to trigger that payment um so I think Enterprises are key to that value chain and therefore they are key to payments as well that's a great Point thanks uh so yeah back in the days I think for me the the turning point for stable coins uh was actually a curve and the liquidity mining because before that we had two stable coins on ethereum I mean decentralized one we had the dye and the susd and both experience very bad Peg and and then the liquidity Manning arrived the the people arrived uh pairing dye with LDC and usdt and this was really turning point where we actually can really use stable coins on chain we have a deep liquidity and with a pack that is actually uh you know maintained so yeah I think this for me was the Turning before that you had no guidance like no real uh step you're going to follow basically yeah you could use it but if you remember was frictioning a lot of susd also I don't remember how low it went but uh yeah the moment we had curve and and the liquid demanding it totally changed something yeah well the only thing I could add I think from the the point of view of our activity was that in the early days you only had one way to access all of those things which was through centralized exchanges which were you know a single uh point of of failure I mean as we can see today they were centralized they were most of them not regulated we know we saw many stories of how it went so the whole challenge was that to build an alternative that was good enough and more aligned with you know why are we using crypto in the first place is to is to be in South custody and that's that led me to my second question is um in the realm of different business you know models and and stubble coins like what key factors should business or individual consider when choosing one like this there's a lot there's a lot of them there's a lot of more coming now what will be the factors that individuals are Enterprise would be like okay we're going to use this one yeah sure you can start again I think since yesterday we have talked a lot about all the different kinds of stable coins all the different kind of mechanisms how they work you know why they work this way so they answer different needs and and you know different different user segments will be attracted by different value proposition you know some people will be attracted by the fact that it's properly regulated some of them would be attracted by the fact that it's it's really permissionless and and truly censorship resistance Etc get Pascal at first it depends who you are and what you need the stablecon for uh of course there are many stable coins and we always say oh why do we need so many stable coins it's fragment the space and so on which is true for some use cases like liquidity for most of usd5 User it's a bit annoying but when you if you look uh Beyond this issue you actually see that some stable cons will have a specific use case maybe Twitter is a bit Eco chamber so we only know the stable coins that everybody knows but for example I met a few guys in Switzerland they have their own stable coin no one knows about it but it has one use case and it does it perfectly so it's for example to help farmers in Nigeria to receive financing from the US so it's very hard for investors in the US to actually Finance people in Algeria so what they did their tokenizing dollar so they send the stablecoin to Nigeria in Nigeria they have banking Partners which accepts those stable coins as collateral to give loans to Farmers when the farmers do what they have to do they're in both the banks the Elder comes from them and then the stable coins are sent back to the U.S so it's adding value like that's yes so for you like the stable coin itself should add more value to emailing or just uh yeah they will cons should I mean there are different server coins again but when you choose one you have to see okay what can I do with it uh and what do I need that maybe a bank can do or or what a several coin can do better and so on got it so I think from an Enterprise perspective it's two things right one is stability they need to know that your net asset value of their treasury isn't going to drip dip by 30 overnight um so that's important um and then the other is liquidity right how easily can you move in in and out of different currency Pairs and how easily can you move in and out of cash because at the end of the day at least for Enterprises they have to interact a lot with the physical world um and so the ability to cash out is really important for them which is why you have services like Mount belaron which are critical all right yeah and I think I um um agree with all of these points you know I think liquidity and ease of cashing in and out are definitely um probably for consumers the things that are the most important but I also think the unit of account is interesting you know I think we have a lot of stable coins that are packed to the US dollar or to the euro and we don't have that many Peg to all of the different Global currencies um and I'm excited for that to change because I think for many people people like to think in their own local unit of account and that doesn't mean that they won't want to hedge inflation with access to these other stable coins and the fact that they're all on dex's accessible to everyone I think is really exciting but I think it's still nice especially as people kind of cash in and out to have the opportunity to kind of have a stable coin that's in in the unit of camp that they know and then if you send that a little bit further um you know there's this concept of community currencies that have been around for a while which are currencies that tend to be pegged to some index important for for a kind of local community and that you know tend to circulate in those communities and so using them incentivizes effectively reinvestment in your local community these have been around with kind of paper versions for a long time I think sardex is probably the biggest one in Sardinia but there's also ones like Ithaca dollar that's that's been pretty big Berkshires and many many others and you know increasingly people are bringing these on chain and I think it's going to be pretty cool to see a world where you know every Community might have a community currency that is kind of reinvesting in that local economy so um I'm going to take you up on that actually uh you say that there's a stable card I've been used only for one situation in Nigeria how does this align with the regulatory uh like this you know because it's it's a big main situation right every time you hear stable coin people think about the regulator like how does this uh fly with uh you know if people politics and so why would you what would you say about um like share some light on the best practice of creating a stable coin that just you know goes with the regulatory situation so first regulation is here for two things it's uh to protect investors and to prevent fraud and money laundry so I trust that so we can all do a good job to build system uh which are respectful of those regulations in case of the Nigeria uh it's it can be seen also of a way to send you know dirty money or whatever to Nigeria and it could seem like there is not a lot of control because yeah you don't go for a bank so actually you can send whatever you want there and and the money you you get from Niger also is maybe not clean but uh again we don't have to see the evil everywhere uh of course yeah regulation is here for preventing those bad things to happen but sometimes unfortunately it breaks a bit The Innovation I mean it's slowdowns Innovation and so on so I think we have to have a proactive discussions with regulators and to show them look on the blockchain you can see everything we can help with the transability of the phones just don't kill what we are doing uh in the name of protecting investors or or to don't fund terrorists or this kind of thing and we all know here that cash is actually you know way more damage and uh well absolutely any text I think a map that's my personal point of view uh Regulatory and compliance uh both have to go a long way with technology because we're always evolving like you know like you said earlier cash been evolving for centuries so you know having compliance in regulatory put just base of um Security will be a long should be along with like we're evolving but I would say emerging countries are where there's a lot of views of stable coins and West the West use stablecoin to protect themselves in D5 space but emerging countries use them to live basically you know what you say about Nigeria I've been in Asia for a very long time in Vietnam as I told you and and there was a real use case but the it doesn't really get along when the regulatory com because they're like yo you guys made money and didn't pay taxes well like you know how how can we evolve on the situation where stable cards should help but still you know show a white handle like yeah we're doing this because you are not ready for us because that's the problem with infrastructure nowadays how like I would say this like for Silo for example you guys a lot of emerging countries do you go to the regulator first or you go to the use cases and people who need you first yeah it's a great question [Music] um it's a little bit of both I think um you know one of the like on the AML front one of the uh most regulated I guess aspects of the whole value chain um are on and off ramps um that's um where you know in order to operate it on and off ramp you tend to need to have various different licenses depending on which country you're in um and I think that uh it has left us in an interesting world where um we have a lot of fragmentation right now right so if you want to um Cash In and Out in in country a versus country B chances are you're going to have to do that with a different on and off ramp provider because um each on and offering provider um you know has because I guess this need for these licenses is creating kind of a lot of global fragmentation and and I think that's an interesting challenge because I think it makes it much harder for adapt Developers for wallet developers to build really seamless applications um and so one thing that we've done to to try to make that easier is to launch Fiat connect which is an open API standard for on and off ramps so you can think of this as kind of the wallet connect of the on and off ramp world so the idea is rather than you know as a wallet as a Dap rather than integrating all of these different on-ramps and off-ramps in every country in the world potentially hundreds of on and off ramps you just integrate one API standard and then connect to each of these as they pop up with via connect support and that's been going pretty well we launched this tender last year and now it is already 12 markets that have launched through a number of different providers that are all licensed and have and are doing full compliance kyc everything and their Servicing now just under 2 billion customers in terms of the addressable market and so it's pretty exciting to see and that's only going to keep growing and so you know you mentioned Nigeria and I think Togo as mentioned before if you go to these markets you can now cash out with the Fiat connect and there's some really great wallets that have implemented this and if via connect is a backend API and so the wallets actually present an experience that looks native to the application and so for the user it's just very seamless and very easy and this can be reused by you know any wallet out there that wants to support the standard so yeah I think that's the the part that we're doing the most to really simplify navigating this I would say pretty pretty fragmented regulatory space okay what about request finals I guess um so I guess at request Finance where we don't operate at the level or the the interface between Fiat and crypto but I think a lot of people don't realize there's a lot of regulations around on financial reporting right so for example starting first first of January 2024 um all U.S persons including businesses have to report transactions including crypto 10K and above within a 15-day period and you have to keep records of the name the purpose of the transfer their address and all these things right that's not possible with etherscan right and so I think one of one of the things that one of the reasons why we exist is to help Enterprises at least have a handle on the financial reporting and you've got to keep this record for like five years or something like that um yeah and and so we try to make it we try to provide a ux that is very familiar for Regulators or they're they're built around these regulations that were built in a web 2 era so people are identified not just by their wallets but we correlated their addresses their their emails their legal names and that makes it easy for businesses to actually adopt crypto because now they can comply with these regulations where it might have been very difficult to do or impossible with things like block explorers you guys been regulated from day one so how how did you guys actually onboard the whole regulation you just started by that or like you you know how did it how did it come to you that this was the business model that you guys should go through regulation rhetoric we have always worked in a regulation first way is that you know for what we do if you don't start by that you cannot do it so that's that's also what allowed a lot of us to grow because you know we've been very diligent I would say from day one and since we are based in Switzerland and swiss regulation is quite famous in other countries for being actually quite strict yeah and and those that way to work is actually highly recognized in other countries and that's that allows us to to grow in other territories with uh quite smoothly actually so how many countries you guys are operating it right now so Switzerland the EU UK and now we are working on some um in South American countries okay yeah so you and the us too us too so so you allow people to actually have multiple bank account in in every country or it's more we don't do bank accounts it's really on and off ramp but what we are working on is to actually attach bank account coordinates to a wallet so it's not a bank account it's a wallet but with bank account a bank coordinates that can allow it to work with the bank system so you can receive Fiats on your wallet you can send crypto from your wallet and paying Fiat other people and that's what we are trying to develop uh in in here in Europe and then in the future in other territories okay um one thing that I would say as as you know as we move I feel like in every platform because you guys you know like creators and you have platforms like I feel like ux UI is like the main subject on how easy is to use um either a protocol or a dab because it gets very it can get very complicated especially if it does that's not your world like you know you see all those uh others uh you know arrow and you don't know where to go and how do you guys like how do you guys value ux UI in your projects yeah so I think as I mentioned in the beginning you know this is really the reason why we we launched cello or we built cello uh in the first places we wanted to make it really easy for people to to send payments um using crypto rails and so I already talked about the ability to pay for gas with with tokens um but the other thing that that we've done um that I'm really proud of is is social connect which is a kind of a public good that lets you effectively connect your phone number to a wallet address in a privacy preserving way um and that that's really nice because it allows you to to kind of tap into what I like to think of as the biggest social network in the world which is the amalgamation of everyone's contact lists and their phones in their pocket and um it's just so much easier to send the payment to someone in your contact list by looking for their name than to have to copy paste to public key derived address and so that's something that that I think at least in the consumer space um has been really really [Music] um uh wonderful it's really enabled all sorts of use cases now on cello where people are using seller wallets to um just to do P2P transactions and to pay for goods and and the other thing that that I'm really excited about is is actually about the card yeah um and so this is started by a company called americhard um it's a Swiss company and I think I can see the founder in the back with a big green on his face uh and so if you want to learn more about this definitely go chat with Victor up ahead but this is really cool this is a self-custodial wallet um that has a private key inside the the Chip And it supports NFC and you can effectively tap to pay on Android POS devices with this where the transaction gets signed up gets beamed up to the card using NFC the chip signs it and then beams it back down and so how fast is it it's like the same speed as like paying with Visa it's already incredible um okay marketing is on right now I see okay got it yeah got it I know that no problem and it's you know just on the topic of ux like you know we're all used to tapping to pay now uh with with credit cards and with our phones and with our watches and and now that same ergonomics that same experience is available to uh crypto rails and so it's pretty cool cool what about you guys yeah you know I I get kind of triggered whenever I see comments on Twitter saying that oh ux is not important to defy like infra is important but that would be crazy to say that yeah yeah I will you'd be surprised um but I don't stay on Twitter it's toxic get out of it so ux for us is really front and center um so for for many of the same reasons that it is for PDP as well um like Marek said but especially at Enterprise level a lot of your CFOs or your HR Personnel they don't come from web3 because you don't hire specifically for web3 credentials right you hire someone from KPMG from ey or with a strong Finance background um these people are used to using tools that look and feel like banking apps or Erp system right that they're used to In traditional companies um and there's a good reason why you want to focus on ux because it's not just an operational issue there's also a security issue so one of the the benefits of using request Finance to process payroll because a lot of people say oh why don't I just use a token multi-sander like this first um I so we in request Finance you don't pay to a wallet address you don't copy and paste that you just select the people by their names or basically by the groups that you assign them inside the app right like employees or contractors um and then you batch pay the invoices that way um we saw this happen in on March the 6th I believe where people Dow the doubt tried to buy the Constitution they process the payroll via a Google sheet like most companies do right they have wallet addresses the amounts um but guess what somebody got a hold of that Google sheet added themselves to it right and said I'm thinking I'm going to pay myself 75 eth right and then he hit the row in the Excel sheet and it gets downloaded sent to the nurses safe multi-sig and six signers looked at that six out of nine signers looked at it and like looks good to me and they realize that out of 120k for that month right um it hurts yeah so I think ux is really more than just a nice to have it's it's critical in many in many ways um not just for adoption especially the retail level because it can't be worse than web 2 fintech apps but as at an Enterprise level it's absolutely crucial for security as well is the most important but as our side we are a protocol we don't focus on user experience of course we build stuff so our stable coins are actually also gasless I mean you can pay uh using our layers you can pay the fees using a stable account itself but for me it comes down to the work of our project to work on the ux you know avocado wallet those are actually the guys who will help companies to be onboarded user to be onboarded so it's their job actually to do all the abstraction Network abstraction gas abstraction protocol abstraction even stable con abstractions you know we have so many stable coins I said before each stablecoin has a specific use case on our site for example we work with different stable coins and we combine their strength with our strength in order to provide user with crazy use cases like for example there is a stable coin called the Euro E from monarium and the cool thing is that it is it connects an iban which is a tour name to your Xerox address so whenever you send Euros you actually do not receive Euros you receive your e directly on your wallet and and as we focus with our jro on the liquidity for example or the yields so we combine the Euro of monarium with our euros and and somehow seamlessly I mean you have to do many transactions you can go from your Euro account to any token that you want on the blockchain and then it has to be the work of arjon and avocado to do all the abstractions and to just okay you send your rows you have your own chain you it's actually a basket of yours it could be a any kind of Euro which is on chain which is in this basket and then you can use it the way you want so yeah this is my point is the protocol shouldn't work on the user experience we should focus on our things and then uh app players and so on should do the virtual user experience uh somehow and from what you just said it kind of you know um lead me to a next question I'm gonna let you in so I'll be like is there a way for because we have so many stable account it's so fragmented like is there a way to create like an interprebability between all those uh stable coins knowing that you know they prepare to uh same currency and that's one of the big uh questions that I've that I want to ask for you guys that you know that live in the space would it be actually um either like a use case or um just a subject where we could create interoperability between all those uh those stable coins where you can either have them all together for payment or like how how could this work in in this uh the space where you have so many stable coins and more coming that's an interesting question I mean it's certainly possible to have a new stable coin that's just backed by a whole bunch of different stable coins and in so doing your decreasing the absolute loss that you might cost yourself if one of these depegs but you're also increasing the likelihood that you might lose some money because if you spread out your risk across a whole bunch of these maybe it's more likely that one of them will fail so I think it's it's it's it's a possible it's an interesting question I wonder if people would actually want to use those or not like when you create something it's more the user that lets you know what your app is going to do for you if they're not you you guys as Builders already felt that you create something and then it's being used in a way that you like I didn't think people would use it for that and next thing you know they use it for an entire new business model that you didn't even see coming so that's why you know I'm asking the question because there's you know we're talking about emerging countries but one thing about merger country Vietnam for example has no to post you know current and stable coin that they use and they find themselves paying you in in six seven different tokens and you're like wait like you know how how can we just aggregate all these so I'm wondering the question about stable coin itself like how could this you know work yeah I suspect that ultimately um the market will kind of help wean that down because I think it's it's maybe not necessarily A technological I guess problem it's more of a network effect problem and I think but I think it's fine if people use a lot you know I think we talked about reasons why people may want to pick one stablecoin or another there's many reasons and I think the number of stable coins that will be available for folks that give them different value props is only going to grow I think with crypto you can actually innovate you can do things that you couldn't do that easily with Fiat you can create stable coins that you know are backed in part by natural Capital right and if you care about fighting climate change you're [Music] um you might want to use one of these stable coins I think I see glow over here you know you can have a stable coin that uses um that's Fiat back but then uses its interest to support public goods or to support um good social causes you know maybe you you would rather use that stablecoin than than to have those funds just go into someone's pocket as profit so I think ultimately the market will decide and it's cool to see that there's all of these possible Innovations now that are popping up and they're I think only possible because crypto just makes it so much easier to experiment yeah I think that that's the exact approach that we take at least at app level we give people like freedom to choose whatever stable client they want and also what on whatever chain they want right so of the 350 million dollars that we've processed um 60 is in stable coins about 30 of that is you 30 31 is usdc another 12 is usdt 11.8 is die um and then the next three percent is like Co USD and a bunch of other like single dollar stable clients and things like that um so I think at the app level we don't really try to say push people to one stable coin another we just then do get out right I mean like and give them the choice that's right right we just the goal for us is at least to just support as many use cases as possible and Abstract away some of the complexities of using stable coins um and may the best stable time win it's a good one what about you yeah abstraction is the key but for basket of stable currency depends again to who we speak about like us as defy user when we hear about the basket of stable coins it's most likely to do new crazy Health farming strategy with stable coins that earn you know yield and so and so on but if you check some applications for example wirex when you hold your own yrx they tell you it's not Euro it's actually your stable coin so they do already the Euro abstraction and and what I would like maybe in the future to see on the request is they want to send you all to someone and this person you say Okay I want to send you all on chain and they don't know which your stable coins or whatever however it is settled and and then it will be sent so basket of currency can be very useful for applications directly a player uh and for defy user yeah it's just for steps for generating yield and have fun with experiments so again it depends uh about who we speak about right a little better you know being a client facing I mean we serve end users who who buy in cash out those stable coins or our job is to to help them do that with the stable coins they want so like you said it's the market that decides it's Market driven and it's driven by you know use cases by yield opportunities and that can change actually quite fast but you know our goal is just to support as many as we can as long as it's liquid enough to offer a good quality service if it's on multiple chains and we can easily Bridge them uh to move liquidity for for the for the clients then we do it all right I see um I want to go back to the the last history of money and the digital money that we have right now obviously one big fact uh is cbdc emerging and uh we already talked about this but the real question is like stable cars being um you know mostly security for users and cbdc on the other hand from governments see themselves also as cbdc how do you see like how do you foresee like the the Enterprise between stablecoin and cbdc's and um can they either coexist can they um how might they complement each other yeah I suspect that you know a lot of this Innovation a lot of this experimentation that's happening on public chains is probably not going to happen on these cbdc chains um for you know good reason um and so the way I see both of these two worlds interacting is is basically having these cbdc chains be on and off ramps for for the masses um so I think it's exciting I think it's going to be really interesting to see how it evolves but you know my my suspicion is that people will build Bridges and these things will become just really good on and off ramps available for everyone yeah 100 um I think so I think it's good to remember that cbdcs are born as a response to stable kinds right so I I see the the relationship between stable coins private stable coins and cbdc's in a competitive lens um it's I think it's cool to know that we for the first time in human history there has been a credible alternative to the financial system and I mean like for the first time ever that is not controlled by the central banks right um so I think that's quite interesting to see how they'll do get out honestly because I think it is competitive landscape as the stablecoin ecosystem evolves as D5 evolves the governments will have to say do we have a credible alternative or do we not have a credible alternative right at least where I come from in Singapore we are trying to be very active in taking the at least our Central Bank in promoting cbdc projects and kind of thinking about different cbdc designs but for ourselves we've concluded that we don't actually need it because our domestic payment rails are sufficiently um so we've got like real-time Payment Systems just like UPI in Brazil or UPI in India or picks in Brazil um and so there's no need for a cbdc and yeah so I think it really comes down to competition at least in Singapore's case it seems to be that stable clients have pretty much out competed cbdc's so so for you there's no use case for cbdc I think it's going to be very limited I think it might probably in the be in not at a retail level it probably would be in terms of like real-time gross settlement between central banks or between large institutional Banks so for example if you've got different banks in different countries they might want to have some sort of internal clearing mechanism that settles instantly instead of having these outstanding balances on The Ledger so I think that's where probably cbdc's will make the most sense I don't see it really having much of a value in in the retail application because as today there's two countries that release their cbdc's and actually working on in China and Nigeria with two different politics I'm not going to get into that but uh the people answer to this very differently one don't have notorious I mean it is what it is I'm not not trying to get into politics but uh and the other one is against it period but still trying to use stablecoin and have the the government of Nigeria thinking about using a stable coin so moving from you know you said cbdc is an answer to stable current and now you have the population in Nigeria for example saying that well maybe uh it's better to use a stable card so it's you know like a reverse situation of what uh they expected so so I think in countries where the payment system and the payment rails or the banking rails are just generally more broken you might see cbdc's as a great way to LeapFrog um whatever web 2 developments they are in with payment rails right so that's possible I think especially in in emerging economies but in sort of like middle-income countries um it's like Singapore right we went from like having basically like checks and credit cards to digital payments that are instant so in those cases I don't think you'll see a use case in it and again I think cbdcs aren't just competing with stable clients they're also competing with real-time Payment Systems right um and in terms of what in terms of tracking in terms of traction and in terms of the use case right um at least in Singapore's case like we not only have a real real-time payment system domestically where I can pay to anyone's phone number instantly um up to like ten thousand dollars or something like that but I can we've also made efforts to link our real-time payment system with other countries so I can use my domestic real-time payment system to pay someone in Thailand or pay someone in Malaysia via their phone number it's instant it's free or like two bips something like that um so I think that's what cbdc's are up against as well not just private Innovations but also in fact banking Innovations right and that's how the World Adoption is already live like this is what people already do yeah I can do it right now yeah okay well if you want to send ten thousand just try it's all good what do you think but again right I think like stable coins um have the benefit of being like okay maybe as a Singaporean I can access those payment rails for other countries but they can do it with each other so it's a hub and spoke right Singapore right but someone in Thailand can't do the same to someone in Malaysia right so they use Singapore as a hub to oh no you can't unless you're a Singapore bank account right okay but if you have a stable coin it doesn't matter right so that's why I see stable it is a competitive landscape stable coins are just one form of financial technology that are competing with banking innovations that are competing with cbdcs so I think cbdc's have their work cut out for them if they want to offer something that's truly going to be valuable the other thing that I think probably doesn't work is you probably can't send it to a phone number that doesn't have an account yet that's right and I think that's something that with crypto we can actually build right and something that social connect supports you can send money to a phone number even before the recipient has created a wallet it just sits in a smart contract in escrow waiting for that person to to sign up and I think these kinds of use cases actually allow us to perhaps even create better experiences and what you're discussing which honestly sounds pretty amazing like uh I want to move back to Singapore I grew up there and I would move back already so and I think it's something important to point out about D5 is that I think that it will enable us to do what open banking promise but never delivered right so I think it's impossible like wherever you live right headshot yeah like you you cannot connect your bank account right to trade on the Singapore Stock Exchange I guarantee you right but that's ridiculous in D5 right we just connect wallet and begin trading um so I think you will have a more open Financial system with defy as especially as real world assets or traditional asset classes like fixed income your schedule theories like equities and stuff like that become tokenized you're going to get more efficient Capital markets I suspect right and you can put ways of like getting it by citizenship and things like that but it's inherently I think a superior design for more efficient Capital markets um where someone like think about what it takes to buy U.S treasury bills for uh somebody in Vietnam you have to have a depository account with an institution you have to open a brokerage account who happens to have a brokerage account in the US or if you want to go Treasury direct.

gov and fill out a 16-page form right um it's three three clicks right on like ondo Finance or Maple right yeah thank you we actually run out of time thanks for all the insights and the knowledge you guys share I don't know if you have time for uh like a couple questions from the from the Legends great so if you if anyone got questions for a panelists I'll be you know right now just raise your hand if you do yeah you just have to return this is one hi thanks for the talk uh you mentioned a fragmented regulatory landscape if there was one country or one regulatory body that's pioneering this place which one would you pick it's a tough one in what way um you mean like would you just want to serve customers in that country or would and forget about the rest of the world or yeah in what way I think in a way as a maybe a company like to to settle there and and B Lee have some leeway with the yeah the local regulatory bodies yeah so obviously I'm going to preach for my own church but in Switzerland I think it's great for that because you have a legal certain certainty on on how crypto stable currents or all the crypto assets are treated uh as a business like if you're a crypto company you want to deal with that in on a fiscal point of view where you have you know you know how it's treated and it's treated reasonably and finally the banking environment is quite okay friendly ish in Switzerland so I think the combination of all those things is quite good to to choose as a regulation and as I said earlier the kyc ml standards of Switzerland have been you know became really really strong and now really recognized internationally so if you if you are if you offer Financial Services in Switzerland you are under that regulation you know all over the world you will be recognized for this and you will be able to fight Partners who say okay you apply Swiss directives we know their quality we know they are above our own standards so we can you know accept them easily all right thanks yeah I think that the same would be for me like I would preach Singapore right uh but the reason it's kind of simple I think um the approach for many of the same reasons that Switzerland is so um so attractive as well right because we've got a strong financial Hub um but also because we looked at the regulation and um that was drafted for traditional Securities and be like oh well we'll just apply it to crypto right um and here are all the use cases um and the central bank's been proactive in literally saying like Okay like this is the Securities regulation is it a security there's no question about it right um same thing with payments and stuff like that right so it's less complicated and for businesses especially if you are worried about a regulator is going to sue you to find out right yeah yep thanks any more questions now looks like that's it we'll run around Plus for our panelists thank you very much guys thank you for moderating thank you thank you for monitoring no problem